I prefer to have the first step to be assessing the problem. Glance at the gun, and see what needs to be done, then fix the gun for problem I actually have. A tap/rack on a stovepipe, or double feed, is a waste of time, and might make things worse.Originally Posted by HCM
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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8
Fixed immediate action might make things worse but was that Officer, under those conditions, in a state of mind to glance and assess ? In fairness to him he had a lot going on and I believe his response was more typical than we want to admit.
Fixed immediate actions are playing the odds one way, assuming the capacity to glance and assess under stress is playing the odds in a different way. I’ve seen a lot of people get stuck in loops of ineffective actions under stress.
Last edited by HCM; 06-16-2023 at 08:29 PM.
Yes, he had a lot.going on, but a tap and rack wasn't going to fix the problem.
If you want to skip the assessment, and have a default action, then you might as well just treat everything like a stovepipe/double feed, because that action won't make anything worse, and will fix the problem, whether its a stovepipe/double feed, or just a failure to fire.
I'll keep training, and teaching, to assess first.
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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8
By RACK SLIDE AND LOCK SLIDE TO REAR do you mean make sure the slide goes fully into battery and then lock to the rear?
If not and you just want to teach two drills (immediate action and one remedial action) without assessing I'd make it:
Remove magazine
Lock slide to the rear
Use slide catch to release slide (while gripping pistol as firmly as possible)
Insert new magazine
Cycle slide
The way I read your remedial, an officer with a FTExtract, unless they are really lucky, will just continually loop your remedial.
I do not know the frequency with which you observe FTExtracts during training, but we observed them often enough to make sure our remedial action would get them cleared - if mechanically possible.
The corporate WE taught DROP and RETAIN (offending magazine) CYLCE, CYCLE, CYCLE, LOCK (slide to rear), TAP (new magazine if you had it) RELEASE, THREAT.
We had a lot of officers that wouldn't cycle the slide hard or fast enough to force the extractor over the case rim. My observation with those officers was that if they locked the slide to the rear and focused on holding the pistol firmly while releasing the slide using the slide catch/release, the extractor would almost always snap over the case rim.
Unfortunately, curriculum is tyranny, and formally changing learning objectives, lesson plans, and test questions was such a bureaucratic nightmare that I never succeeded in convincing my cohorts to go through the formal change process - that lesson plan wasn't my responsibility.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
No.
We only tap / rack once. If that doesn’t fix the issue we teach to move on to phase 2 - Lock slide /Rip out mag/ work slide 3x / reload.
Nor do we see many issues with people not working the slide hard enough.
After seeing that the other day I was most curious about what happened in the first place…click no bang? Bad round? Empty pistol? Mechanical malfunction? What initiated the first attempted malfunction clearance?
So, a couple of things ... whoever mentioned the issue of a pro-active draw vs a reactive draw, I think there is a lot to that. I rarely see these types of stoppages with a planned draw.
The malfunction clearance ... in the beginning, after Tap & Rack, there was Lock, Rip, Retain, RackRackRack, Find new mag & discard old or not, Reload, Rack, Re-engage.
Then came the Glock clearance - after Tap, Roll, Rack - Unload the gun, Reload the gun. Can't even recall seeing that demo'd where the original mag was discarded. Every example I've seen emphasizes using the mag that just came out of the gun 'cause it's faster. If that's what the agency in question teaches, could that be the cause?
There's still an argument for accessible back-up guns.
I am a mere schmere match shooter and under even that mild stress, I found all that malfunction categorizing and decision tree to be a challenge.
I go to phase 2 immediately.
I did have to argue my way out of an IDPA procedural penalty because I dropped a half loaded magazine.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Starting at Gunsite in 1992, and by many others since then, I was taught tap/rack as the immediate action, followed by the slower locking the slide back method if tap/rack isn't effective. That is what I use in competition and train for outside competition. The advantage of tap/rack is that it can be done so quickly and while keeping your focus down range.
If you need to lock the slide back, that isn't going to work out if you are standing flat footed and someone or some thing (bear or other animal) is trying to harm you, and I plan to go Nike before attempting it.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I have to wonder if the culprit is the culture of keeping mags forever. I’ve worked with LEO’s who are using the same mags they had at the academy 10 to 20 years ago. Mags are consumables, but LEO’s are cheap and some agencies can’t be bothered to replace them over time. Heck, @Failure2Stop has shared throwing away a rifle mag that was causing problems and writing “BAD” on it. Months later one of his Marines was having problems and he found that same mag was in the rifle. That Marine saw it in the trash and took it out to use. Lol!
As @TGS mentioned mags are the most common failure point. Check your people and their equipment if you’re in a leadership or trainer role. You might save a life.
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