The case for the assessment pause

[KevH]

Start at :30 if you want to see one of those mag dumps:

Everything about that scenario sucks so bad.

Yes, the dump of cortisol and other chemicals into the the detective's body would have been extreme. The mag dump through the windshield, in the context of some of the other things we have discussed in this thread, is understandable (although a bad practice).

It's hard not to make excuses for the guy, but...

Hood-to-hood is no bueno. You are already at a disadvantage because we as police officers are always reacting to the threat. We have to wait for the bad guy to make a move first which always puts us behind. Someone in another thread brought up Miami within the past couple days. That lesson was learned long ago yet here we are.

Within just the past 13 years lots of cool-guy instructors began teaching about shooting from inside vehicles. Some of it may be sound and some of it not. Having shot through auto glass in a range setting a bunch of times I would say you are much better off not shooting through it if you can help it. Did our detective here learn something in a class or video that made that his go to or what it just his natural startle response? He's shooting through two windshields essentially making hit probability and ballistic effectiveness go way down.

In this scenario, had he been able to take a quick breath and "assess" he might have fired around his own windshield (from the v of the door) and slowed down just the tiniest fraction of a second getting better hits. Yes, I know there is an automatic weapon being fired at him, but teaching yourself to suck oxygen in (literally take a deep breath) to reduce the effect of cortisol is a vital training tool to allow for sound decision making. Guys like Dave Grossman have been teaching about this for nearly 30 years and it should be part of every academy and UofF in-service. It can mean the difference between needlessly wasting a mag of ammo or disabling an opponent. The difference between life and death.

[Torquemada]

I think this is the discussion to have. How do we avoid training tools (Double, Bill drill, etc.) becoming the engagement strategy. I’m not sure what that looks like but it’s got to be more than “don’t do this on the street”.

One has to seperate the crap from reality. You have to comprehend the age that we live in today.

IN the modern age, the only "knowledge" that many get is what they find online with Swat mag.com or Recoil. Or just some 15 year old kid on youtube.

When everything in the training magazines is SPEED SPEED SPEED,,, that is all that is focused on. They forget about aiming. Or just about HITTING something.

Sure its nice to read a magazine article about how you NEED to be able to hit a target as speed, but when they come out and say "hitting the 9" circle target itself is fine because in the real world youll be like actually trying to keep the bullets in a specifici body area of your attacker"... me eyes glaze over.

[Crusader]

I think a lot of us that came up in the fire assess fire again if needed days feel this way. I too understand the shoot them to the ground theory and the reason for it, but I’ve always felt that is more for the military and less for LE and CCW.

I’ve always felt that the days of the mag dump corresponded with the popularity and rise of civilian training classes and the mass increase of instructors wanting to show how fast and accurate they are to the noobs. On a side note it also corresponds to 9mm taking over as the caliber of choice, we are much faster with 9. All this lead to a generation of mag dumping and who doesn’t like to do mag dumps they’re fun, but we shoot like we train. I’m certainly not immune to it, but more assessing and less dumping would be a good thing.

[GJM]

Assessment pause needed:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50718482...te-charges-say

[SiriusBlunder]

Assessment pause needed:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50718482...te-charges-say

I think this is tongue in check, but if not, preclusion is a more important concept here, based on that article. Instead of going to the truck and getting a gun from the center console, he should have gotten in the truck and driven away. Never should have been a shooting.

[PNWTO]

I think this is tongue in check, but if not, preclusion is a more important concept here, based on that article. Instead of going to the truck and getting a gun from the center console, he should have gotten in the truck and driven away. Never should have been a shooting.

Ego vs ego… no winners.

Definitely violated the stupid things, stupid places, stupid people triad.

[Archer1440]

Regardless of the specifics here, that victim had a rather breathtaking list of criminal cases in his history.

[GJM]

I think this is tongue in check, but if not, preclusion is a more important concept here, based on that article. Instead of going to the truck and getting a gun from the center console, he should have gotten in the truck and driven away. Never should have been a shooting.

Yep, the whole caper was a serious blunder.

[revchuck38]

Regardless of the specifics here, that victim had a rather breathtaking list of criminal cases in his history.

This prompted me to google his criminal history. He has an unusual name so I'm guessing it's the same guy. First-degree murder in AZ and several things in UT. It sounds like he should've been committed a long time ago.