Beretta 92 vs HK P30

[Pacioli]

Thought I would weigh in on the paddle mag release...I have nearly 15k rounds on HK's (45c, a P30 and a VP9 ) and have never had an accidental mag release while firing. All of my holsters are JMCK and the trigger guard nicely covers the paddles, so there's never been an unintentional mag release. I've carried strong side OWB and IWB and now carry appendix IWB. So I just don't think that's an issue you should worry about.

I have become a real fan-boy of the paddles because mag changes are so much easier. I use my trigger finger and never have to break my grip. Could just be my hand size, but 1911's, PPQ's, every button release gun I've shot required me to rotate my grip.

Embrace the paddle, it's not the dark side

[Clusterfrack]

...If I had to pick one gun that I could probably pick up after a very long hiatus, and within 20-50 rounds, be back to doing rather well with the gun, it would be the P-07. Unfortunately, it does not have a thumb safety TDA combo.


There are a number of reasons I seek what I seek. A list would include, but is not limited to:

Hiking where debris get all over me and the holster
Off body carry (not ideal, I know)
AIWB
Admin handling
Safer around none gun people (it’s part of the safety solution, far from THE solution. That would be a secure gun.)
Better defense against a gun takeaway in a fight
Less chance of ND/AD

As you know, I use P-07s for virtually all of my CCW needs. Let me address some of your concerns:

Debris: The P-07 is one of the most dirt-resistant guns ever made. It ranked it #2 out of all handguns in Military Arms Channel's Gauntlet dirt/mud/sand test. My experience has been similar. I've used mine OWB in rain, snow, sand, and heavy moon dust. Zero malfunctions.

For off-body or OWB, a good retention holster can solve some of your other concerns. Check out the Safariland GLS

I don't understand how the safety addresses admin handling concerns in a way that a decocker doesn't.

Non-gun people are primates. With hands that can fiddle with buttons and levers. My approach would be to not ever have anyone handle my gun unless I was in charge of the situation.

Gun takeaway. This has been covered in a lot of discussions, and while there may be some marginal advantage if the BG gets your gun, it's outweighed by strong evidence that a safety in a gun-grappling situation decreases the chances of using your weapon to defend yourself.

AD/ND: I'm going to disagree here. I've seen plenty of NDs with guns that have safeties. What I have never seen is an ND with a decocked TDA.

[fatdog]

owned multiple examples of both and it would be P30 for me because the ergos work so well for me, at least once I put Talon Pro material on the grips, mine are light LEM. Grip is simply too different and put my finger in the wrong place for me to shoot a 92 well, I tried the vertec, no help, and owned the single stack but that is too much weight and bulk for 8+1.

I always believed that eventually the 92 locking block was going to break on me someday. I harbor no such belief anything is as likely to break on a 30 or 30L.

[jeep45238]

I really, really like B92's, even though I own none at the moment. The P30 just makes the easy button too easy (I also have more VP9/P30 mags than most would readily admit to).

If I ever get to do a "workhorse of the Cold/Golf War Era" collection, B92, P226, etc., will be present. But that's way down the pike, if ever.

[Borderland]

I had a 92. Nice pistol but one can do better.

Slide mounted controls are last century. Sig figured it out. You don't need a safety, just a decocker where you need it. Not on the slide please. Then HK improved on it. You don't really need a safety or a decocker.

I have a P-30 LEM now. The 92 I sold a long time ago. I have some Sigs, not selling those, but LEM just addresses all the issues I have about a carry. I don't like safeties for starters. And I don't like an 8 lb trigger on the 1st shot.

This more or less expresses my opinions about LEM.

https://youtu.be/1KVkWGMkOKE

Start at 4:50 for the LEM explanation.

Of course this is all personal preference but just be aware someone has all the answers.

[GlockenSpiel]

Personally I'd be ok with da/sa decock only. It's not going to go off if you have a da trigger pull imo. The key issue is remembering to decock, so I don't see that as different from remembering to use the combined safety/decocker lever. Based on your manual safety plus either double action or grip safety criteria, for carry, I'd look at these:

-px4 in any size with the 92 levers
-beretta 92 compact
-double stack 1911s (this really depends on your budget)
-S&W Equalizer
-USP compact if you can find one that's not silly expensive.

I do not like the fact the p30 has the decocker separate from the safety. Needing to manage two controls to know if the gun is on/off safe and is cocked or not is really bad imo.

[No.6]

https://langdontactical.com/px4-safety-levers-92-style/

Also https://www.beretta.com/en-us/gun-ac...ype-92fs-r-p-/

(same thing)

For a data point, my PX4 has the stealth levers and resides in 'G' configuration. I use the levers only if a) loading a barney round; or b) intentionally repeating the DA pull for practice.

[Bergeron]

My first centerfire handgun was a USP, and I carried it decocked and on-safe, and I had a 92D Centurion for a while. I would agree that decocked and on-safe is a bit of a belt and suspenders sort of an approach, but I don't have to shoot your guns, or be at your self-defense.

You ought to be able to find ranges that will let you try both guns out. If on-safe carry is a requirement for you, then I would say that i generally prefer down-to-fire safeties. Down-to-decock is cool with me, but I would be less than satisfied with an up-to-fire safety setup. Seeing the title, I was wondering if you were looking at the new thumb safety Berettas.

If there was going to be a lot of carrying, I would lean towards the HK as the lighter setup. I can't imagine the magazine release letting while shooting or in the holster.

[P30]

I have become a real fan-boy of the paddles because mag changes are so much easier. I use my trigger finger and never have to break my grip.

Me too.

[TheNewbie]

Again thank you all for the responses. The following is in no way bragging, as I am rather low speed, boring, and unexciting. Most people here have done way more than I, and thankfully, I have never fired a shot in anger. Let's hope it stays that way.



That said, I have carried and/or trained with all types of firearms at some point, either professionally or personally. Striker, DAO, TDA, 1911. While I understand someone thinking TDA combined with a safety is overkill, I disagree. It's not for everyone, and oddly enough, I certainly wouldn't recommend it for new shooters, unless they had extensive training with that system.


I would be happy with a M&P full size with a safety/grip safety, a LEM with safety, DAO with a safety, Glock with an SCD/Safety, etc. The reason for the P30 V3s vs B92, is they are both available and easy to find. There is no gunsmithing involved, they are not a theoretical concept, and I am comfortable with TDA guns.


If the safety was out of the question, then the easy answer is either P-07 or Glocks with SCDs. Glocks with SCDs just barely meet my criteria for comfort, but comfort is a feeling, and we have to be careful how much we let our feelings dictate our rational thought. The P-07 is the best option for a non safety equipped, yet "safer" pistol out there.


I also appreciate the challenges to my thought process. It never hurts to have that done.