Adding Trustees to an NFA Trust

[GyroF-16]

I want to add my wife and sons to several existing trusts.
One trust owns some SBRs. Others own suppressors.

I have the forms provided by Silencer Shop (who helped create the trusts).
I will complete the amendment forms and have them notarized.

My questions:
1. Do I need to provide the ATF copies of the amended trusts?
2. UNLESS the trusts acquire additional NFA items, do the new trustees have to submit “Responsible Person” forms and fingerprint cards to the ATF?
(For item #2, the ATF final ruling on trusts in 2016 seems to only require background checks when the trust acquires a firearm.)

What I’m really wondering is how involved the ATF has to be in amending trusts that own NFA items?
Do they just need to be aware that such a trust exists (as they are when the trust acquires firearms)?
Or do they need to know about all amendments?

I understand that it may sound like I’m asking for legal advice.
What I’m really asking is what you know, and where the guidance exists.

[HeavyDuty]

Watching with interest - my wife is (beneficiary?) but I've wondered if there were advantages to adding her as a trustee.

[Doc_Glock]

Also watching as my kids are hitting that 21 year age mark and I want to add them to trust.

[GyroF-16]

Here’s part of the response I received from Silencer Shop when I posed the same questions:
——-
“Thankfully, the process is simpler than you imagine-- the ATF does not require the trusts on file with them to be updated any time a change is made; you can add your wife and two sons to any trust documentation you might have, and grant them the right to use/transport/possess NFA items held by the trust as you choose (provided they aren't prohibited persons, of course!). With our trusts, co-trustees will be authorized to possess trust property as soon as the amendments to add them are appropriately signed/dated/notarized/witnessed (witness requirements may or may not be present, depending on your state).

The minimum age to be a co-trustee is 18; that said, co-trustees between the ages of 18 and 20 can only possess NFA items-- they cannot purchase additional items to add to the trust.”
——-

It appears that the process is quite straightforward, and that 18 is the minimum age for someone to possess an NFA firearm. My research indicates that 18-20 yr-olds cannot purchase an NFA item from an FFL, but are permitted to own them if acquired by other means.

[DaBigBR]

The only thing the ATF is concerned about are responsible persons at the time of application. The only thing you need to notify them of for existing items are changes of address.

[RAM Engineer]

The only thing the ATF is concerned about are responsible persons at the time of application. The only thing you need to notify them of for existing items are changes of address.

What is the method of notifying them of change of address? Is there a form, or just a letter?

[CleverNickname]

What is the method of notifying them of change of address? Is there a form, or just a letter?

You have to get prior approval by filing a form 5320.20 for interstate moves (both temporary and permanent) of machineguns, SBRs, SBSes and destructive devices. There's nothing required for silencers or AOWs. For intrastate moves, there's nothing required, otherwise you'd have to get prior approval to even take an NFA firearm to the range.

[DMF13]

What is the method of notifying them of change of address? Is there a form, or just a letter?

See page 3 of the ATF Form 1 and/or Form 4, "Important Information For Currently Registered Firearms, Change of Description or Address," for that info. Information about notifying ATF about "Interstate Movement" is in the same section, but separate from the change of address.

[Toonces]

For intrastate moves, there's nothing required, otherwise you'd have to get prior approval to even take an NFA firearm to the range.

That's what I thought, until I had my 5320s rejected in 2019 because the address on the 5320s didn't match the address in the trust. Right, wrong, or indifferent...I had to have my trust updated (via notarized amendment) to get the 5320s approved.

[BWT]

I want to add my wife and sons to several existing trusts.
One trust owns some SBRs. Others own suppressors.

I have the forms provided by Silencer Shop (who helped create the trusts).
I will complete the amendment forms and have them notarized.

My questions:
1. Do I need to provide the ATF copies of the amended trusts?
2. UNLESS the trusts acquire additional NFA items, do the new trustees have to submit “Responsible Person” forms and fingerprint cards to the ATF?
(For item #2, the ATF final ruling on trusts in 2016 seems to only require background checks when the trust acquires a firearm.)

What I’m really wondering is how involved the ATF has to be in amending trusts that own NFA items?
Do they just need to be aware that such a trust exists (as they are when the trust acquires firearms)?
Or do they need to know about all amendments?

I understand that it may sound like I’m asking for legal advice.
What I’m really asking is what you know, and where the guidance exists.

TLDR:

1.) No. Only when adding new items.
2.) No.


So, the easiest way to think of this is most gun control is under the commerce clause of the constitution.

It happens at the point of sale or transfer.

So any new responsible persons you add will be able to take ownership of those items, etc.

However, with any new trustees when you add items to the trust will need to be fingerprinted and photographed, etc.

If you spin up a new trust every time with just yourself, and you’re amending the trust to add folks to it then there’s no additional background checks necessary.

It’s still illegal to provided weapons to prohibited persons, but largely the 41F was to run background checks on everyone in the trust because NFATCA asked for a New Proposed Rule Making. Which is why NFATCA’s submitted made no sense “But there may not be a background check! Yes, but it’s still illegal to provide weapons to prohibited persons and a straw purchase is also illegal. Which happens and the ATF may or may not prosecute”.

But it ended CLEO signature required and made it CLEO notification.

I’m not a lawyer, but that’s how I’ve dealt with it and how I’ve always understood it.

5320.20’s can be for travel or for permanent change of address.

These are federal laws - state laws are not discussed.