Appendix Carry and soft body armor

[Trooper224]

Though I generally agree with this statement, I think the context matters in this situation.

1) This is a great reason to pony up and just buy some body armor. This might be useful in the future. Kind of like a trauma kit; you hope to never need it; but if you need it, you need it NOW.

2) There is a least a remote probability it could come in handy. A neighboring agency has a huge range, and requires the use of body armor when shooting there. This includes ROs. I'm not sure if this is an insurance requirement or just policy.

I try to train the way I fight, so when I shoot action pistol type events, I use my full duty belt and sometimes soft armor. It slows me down, but I need the reps.

You're right, context is EVERYTHING.

But, you context appears to be vastly different from that of the OP. You're an LE, so you're getting paid to go there and do that. The OP is some dude who's just bought his first gun, who thinks he needs to armor up to to attend a competition. That indicates a mindset issue to me.

Once, I was hit in the shin by a ricochet fragment while on a range. I was also doing medieval reenactment at the time, but I didn't show up the next time in a suit of armor, though it would have been awesome.

I think the OP needs to moderate his fear along with his expectations.

I'm one of the guys who never gets ice in his drink. I ain't payin' to water it down.

[john c]

You're right, context is EVERYTHING.

But, you context appears to be vastly different from that of the OP. You're an LE, so you're getting paid to go there and do that. The OP is some dude who's just bought his first gun, who thinks he needs to armor up to to attend a competition. That indicates a mindset issue to me.

Once, I was hit in the shin by a ricochet fragment while on a range. I was also doing medieval reenactment at the time, but I didn't show up the next time in a suit of armor, though it would have been awesome.

I think the OP needs to moderate his fear along with his expectations.

I'm one of the guys who never gets ice in his drink. I ain't payin' to water it down.

Again, I'm 85% in agreement. I think the OP WANTS to buy some cool body armor, and this is as good a reason as any for a regular dude. I say go for it. It's a good a reason as I've used to buy most "prepper" stuff I've ever bought. It can live in his garage on top of the water cans and cases of MREs, except he'd actually take it to a match where 1 out of a million times it might save him from injury. If there's unrest in his town, he can strap it on if he needs to. The MREs will probably expire and get thrown away.

Just to clarify, I use my duty belt and sometimes my vest when attending action pistol matches off duty. So I'm not paid to be there, but to me, it's tangential to my job. I don't train enough as it is, so I figure I should use my duty gear. I don't compete enough to have a duplicate gunbelt, so I use my regular one. I also find that a bunch of reps on my level 3 holster breaks it in quicker. My newest one for my red dot is still a little stiff.

I do agree that showing up in a suit of armor would be awesome. Back in college I had a buddy who did what became HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) and went to events on his motorcycle. He couldn't fit his armor on his bike, so he just wore a pretty complete set of plate mail, including gauntlets, on his motorcycle. It was pretty badass.

[john c]

Its not quite the same as a trauma kit otherwise you'd wear body armor amy time left home. You could also train the way you fight by dry firing just before, during lunch break, or after shift. I would much rather be comfortable at a match and enjoy the experience instead of trying to treat it like a fight which it is not. I am all for using an exact copy of a duty gun, and I also use an als safariland holster but that's the furthest I'd take it

I'm not treating a match like a fight. I'm just using my equipment more to get more reps on what I actually use, versus competition. I recently transitioned to a red dot, so I'm trying to shoot 2k rounds through it, in match settings, so get used to it. A lot of good things have come from using my duty gear on the clock. Like I need to work on recoil control to keep the dot in the window better. I could do it with a G34, but it's harder with a shorter slide G45 that I use for duty. Dry fire, though important, didn't teach me that. I'm in the process of creating a duplicate duty gun, but these days the pistol is the cheapest part of the package. $500 for the G45, plus $120 for the light, $600 for the ACRO P2, $175 for the Safariland holster. Damn, now I sound like a crusty old-timer. That's a bad combination of being greedy, cheap, and broke. Luckily, only two of those currently apply.

[HCM]

I'm not treating a match like a fight. I'm just using my equipment more to get more reps on what I actually use, versus competition. I recently transitioned to a red dot, so I'm trying to shoot 2k rounds through it, in match settings, so get used to it. A lot of good things have come from using my duty gear on the clock. Like I need to work on recoil control to keep the dot in the window better. I could do it with a G34, but it's harder with a shorter slide G45 that I use for duty. Dry fire, though important, didn't teach me that. I'm in the process of creating a duplicate duty gun, but these days the pistol is the cheapest part of the package. $500 for the G45, plus $120 for the light, $600 for the ACRO P2, $175 for the Safariland holster. Damn, now I sound like a crusty old-timer. That's a bad combination of being greedy, cheap, and broke. Luckily, only two of those currently apply.

The only thing cheaper than a cop…. Is two cops.

The “train like you fight thing” is context dependent.

Practicing in your gear sometimes to deconflict or shooting a match in your gear sometimes to pressure test things is good.

Doing all shooting especially “actual training” I.e. learning new skills in full gear is detrimental.

Are use my duty belt for most of my range training, but I do strip it down. I shouldn’t need cuffs or OC at a match.

I get officers on the range who want to wear their body armor and that’s fine when the weather is moderate. But when they want to wear body armor in the full Texas summer heat it is a safety issue as it impacts their mental faculties and increases their risk of becoming a heat casualty.

He even better one is the guys who do the single step to the side thing and told me that they are “reactive shooters” and they can’t shoot without moving….

[Hambo]

I love both your and Trooper224's posts. As the old saying goes, the only thing cheaper than one cop is two cops.

I don't think you got my point. My job required me to assume risks on behalf of the community, but shooting as a hobby shouldn't. If a range or match is that unsafe, if falls under the stupid things with stupid people rule. If you show up somewhere and it's dangerous, that's one thing. If you sign a waiver and pay the match fee, you want whatever you get.

[Erick Gelhaus]

A question I have is how much would soft body armor affect my ability to draw from appendix carry, as that is my preferred carry method and any recommendations on concealable level ii or iiia soft armor.

I'll stick with the OPs question ... how much impact will depend on the cut of the armor panels & the carrier combined with your build;

Soft armor companies I'd recommend? US Armor, Point Blank, Safariland, Velocity Systems, & maybe Crye (though I don't know how much decent normal human business they do armor-wise).

[Chuck Whitlock]

Here is a relevant video from @Mas.

[golden.pierpoint]

Thanks all for the opinions.

Appreciate those who gave insight into the impact it had on their draw and recommendations on body armor.

I guess my perspective is given we don’t know who’s at the range with us and what their competency is better safe than sorry. Compound that with competitions where guys have super lightened triggers and accidents can happen.

If there isn’t a material impact to training it just seems like a prudent risk reward decision.

[Jamesa]

First gun plus learning appendix draw and re-holstering......... plus body armor, plus competition......
Recipe for disaster?

[Default.mp3]

I guess my perspective is given we don’t know who’s at the range with us and what their competency is better safe than sorry. Compound that with competitions where guys have super lightened triggers and accidents can happen.

Evaluate the threat. How many people have died from being shot by someone else at a competition? How many have been injured? Now consider the rate of MVAs, and how that might impact you just driving to a match.