Trying to diagnose a LE shooting buddy

[Serpico1985]

Thank you guys. Y’all have helped.

We can get access to a gen 5 17 with a RMR.

I have a pistol shooting rest for zeroing irons and red dots too. Makes it easy to get the gun comfortable and pointing exactly where you want it while supported.

I like the dry fire idea of concentrating on support hand grip and pressing the trigger twice as hard as needed and following up with dry presses while applying enough support grip to keep the sights still.

I also like the video by JCN.

Gracias!

[PNWTO]

I’ll come out of left field with some randomness and also suggest he that he replace his RSA; if his agency hasn’t done so already.

Lots of great advice in this thread but if this is relatively new development it could be the RSA. I’ve seen some POI shift related to that, and a brand new POI with a fresh spring.

[pangloss]

My advice probably isn't worth much, but I'd tell him to tighten up the support hand and then really focus on isolating his trigger finger contraction.

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[WobblyPossum]

Ball and dummy has already been mentioned as a good test to see if he’s got a pre-ignition muzzle dip. Another one I like was taught to me as “trigger overlay.” Have the shooter aim the gun and not touch the trigger. You then work the trigger while the shooter just concentrated on keeping the sights on target. I your rounds hit exactly where the sights are aimed and the shooter can’t replicate that while shooting the gun themselves, they’re dipping the muzzle.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Ball and dummy has already been mentioned as a good test to see if he’s got a pre-ignition muzzle dip. Another one I like was taught to me as “trigger overlay.” Have the shooter aim the gun and not touch the trigger. You then work the trigger while the shooter just concentrates on keeping the sights on target. I your rounds hit exactly where the sights are aimed and the shooter can’t replicate that while shooting the gun themselves, they’re dipping the muzzle.

^^^^
As I read the thread, I thought of the Mudgett/LAPD trigger control drills.

After shooting a pistol myself, I'll have them grip & sight while I press the trigger.

In addition to the dummys & ball, there are more drills. Great article on it was written by Morrison & Mudgett years back.

[Shawn Dodson]

I suggest using a laser boresight cartridge for dryfire practice. It's continuously "on" and easily reveals what he's doing.

Have him put the laser dot on the x-ring and learn to work the trigger without moving the dot out of the x-ring. Whatever he's doing wrong will disappear as he learns to work the trigger without moving the dot.

This is how I train new shooters to learn to work the trigger without moving the gun. At this point I haven't introduced them to sight alignment and sight picture.

[Backspin]

To echo what @LukeNCMX suggested back in post #7, the trigger needs to be worked aggressively in dry practice to get a better sense of what is going on. Most people can work the trigger slowly dry and not move the gun. Multiple aggressive presses on a dead trigger (or with a piece of paper between the breech face and barrel to give you full range of trigger motion with your Glocks) will have a higher chance of showing a pattern of movement that will aid in diagnosing/improving technique. The lack of distinct windage error leads me to believe that firming up the wrists could be the biggest area to help mitigate the downward movement.

Couple more thoughts for the OP:
-How would you describe his trigger press on the left dot? And what was the shot cadence? Was he slamming the full travel of the trigger all the way to the rear in one motion? The fact that the error goes away when you have him take up the slack first leads me to believe he might be pressing the trigger too much too soon, especially if precision was the goal of the shots.

-To help firm up the wrists, make sure your friend is gripping firmly with the shooting hand pinky and the arms are slightly bent in this shooting stance.

[vcdgrips]

Late to the party-lots of good thoughts offered by EG, GJM, SD and others.

My add- have him shoot with both ear plugs and ear muffs:
1. It better protects your hearing in the short/mid/long term
2. Less “heard” noise can mean less “flinch”
3. Shooting outdoors with optimum light/space can help as well.

Good on you for trying to help.

[HCM]

I suggest using a laser boresight cartridge for dryfire practice. It's continuously "on" and easily reveals what he's doing.

Have him put the laser dot on the x-ring and learn to work the trigger without moving the dot out of the x-ring. Whatever he's doing wrong will disappear as he learns to work the trigger without moving the dot.

This is how I train new shooters to learn to work the trigger without moving the gun. At this point I haven't introduced them to sight alignment and sight picture.

That’s great for new shooters, but the issue described in the OP may or may not manifest in dry fire. If it doesn’t, ball and dummy and trigger overlay drills are the classic fix.

[GJM]

Bill Rogers advocates the ball and dummy drill differently-- alternating live and dummy so the shooter knows what is about to happen. He thinks learning occurs faster that way as the shooters knows there will be no concussion and is more likely to get a perfect press.