A laser sight with ball and dummy is a superb corrective training tool. Like the laser boresight cartridge it allows the shooter to see all movement of the gun when the trigger is being worked.Originally Posted by HCM
A laser sight with ball and dummy is a superb corrective training tool. Like the laser boresight cartridge it allows the shooter to see all movement of the gun when the trigger is being worked.
I love B&D, have used it many times. I like the idea of them knowing it is coming as a secondary technique, but I typically spring it on them first, because I think most people are stunned by how much they are yanking the pistol, and that makes an impression. Then some more dry fire so they prove to themselves they can snap without a yank, then another B&D random run. I think once people prove to themselves they can do it themselves they accept their ability.
I have not done the Overlay so much, but I should do better at remembering that.
Another thing I do (especially with new shooters) is have them shoot something easy, minimizing the anticipation of shooting what they may perceive as a big bad powerful self-defense weapon. I typically have some version of 22 around, like a Ruger or a Buckmark, probably one with a RDO and a nice trigger, and I let them shoot that. After they shoot a nice group at ~10yds or so, I have them reflect on how well they did, proving to themselves they can do it. I explain that what they just shot is super easy to shoot, but that they obviously have the fundamental ability before we move on to something centerfire. So with your buddy not being a new shooter, maybe revisiting something easy to shoot will verify he is probably doing a pre-ignition yank?
Thank y’all for all the helpful info.
Y’all have given us a bunch of stuff to try. Another member reached out to me and I put him in contact with my bud, they are gonna meet up sometime and take a crack at it.
One thing that this illuminates is the shocking lack of institutional ability to truly diagnose a shooter who’s having issues. His organization just can’t get to the root of it. He genuinely wants to fix it. My organization is no better. A lot of folks think if one person can shoot well enough then they must be able to teach others.
The two things are virtually completely separate.
Thanks again for all the helpful tips. If anyone still has thoughts we’d love to hear them. We will work on this issue and hopefully get him squared away.
I agree that he’s likely anticipating and doing the pre-ignition push down often. He may also be loosing his sight picture just before the shot breaks since he seems to not see it dipping.
That’s one of the reasons I really liked the dry fire drill where you really concentrate on support hand grip pressure and press the trigger harder than needed. Never thought about doing that.
IME shooting well, teaching and coaching / diagnostics are three distinct skill sets.
We’ve had threads here before on the issues facing institutional firearms instructors.
Even if they want to do a good job many get no additional traning beyond an initial 2 or 3 week firearms instructor school. In some places that school expects you to show up knowing how to shoot and focuses on teaching coaching and diagnostics. in other places or other times, it is basically a two week shooting school that pays lip service to teaching, coaching and diagnostics.
The other issue is continuing education. Will Petty of centrifuge training posted something once regarding police, firearms instructors lack of continuing education, saying that the Rockette dancers have to try out every year but most LE FI pass one class and are “made for life.” In many places an instructor could’ve gone to FI school 10, 15 or 20 years ago and not received any follow on FI training.
IMEthe better ones will go seek out training on their own or through organizations like some of the state, tactical officers associations like TTPOA, OTOA etc. conversely, some of the worst are big fish in small ponds.
My own agency requires instructors to attend a weeklong recertification class every five years, including shooting / qualifying on the instructor shooting standards at the start of the class and pass / fail teach backs.
This situation is tailor made for a Mantis X in live fire. Basically, it gives you a track of what the muzzle is doing before, during, and after the shot. It's a little expensive, but it's a great dry and live fire training tool.
Likely be very revealing.
Done properly, the "Mudgett/LAPD trigger control drills..." are a great way to demonstrate and assess.
I have that article available as a PDF. It details the first four trigger drills. There are a total of nine.
Essential to the Trigger Drills is having a capable instructor shoot the officer's gun first, in front of the officer.
My academy program uses Mudgett's Trigger Drills and Skip Loading. Failure rate over the last six years is .015%.
Well, we identified a couple of issues and worked on correcting them. He does a lot of things right, so I'm confident he can get to where he wants to be with some time and effort.
We ended our short session today by having him shoot The Test (10 rds - 10 yards- 10 sec) one time. He was just a tad over 10 seconds, otherwise his score would have been a 98.
The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.
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