Classifier results analysis, slightly different angle

[YVK]

I shot my first ever classifier today; I'd done pieces of it before but never the whole thing. I'd shot two IDPA matches prior to that. I am disappointed with a result. I had 44 points down, with a horrific 17 points down stage one. I did exactly what I tried not to do and a missed head shot. Twice.
With all of that, I made a sharpshooter.

Here is the question. I know I can clean up the head shots. I shot with an appendix holster which was positioned as far forward as rules allowed, but of course it screwed up my draw times; I can correct that. I am not closely familiar with IDPA target in that it is not very intuitive to me where the 8 ring is (from anatomic standpoint, its location is retarded and should be 2-3 inches higher); this can be corrected with experience. I got two procedurals for cover on stage 3, perhaps I can fix that. So, just right there, there are some seconds to shave. Say, 10 seconds on head misses and procedurals, maybe several more if I didn't fumble the draw, one reload was so-so.

So I am thinking, I'll clean all of that, and I'll make....a sharpshooter again.

My raw time was 115 seconds, which means that to make an expert, I need to shoot at the same speed and give up just 8 points, not 44. Doesn't sound realistic, does it?

So, the question # 1: it seems like to make a higher rating, I'd need a qualitative skill improvement, not just cleaning up the obvious stuff above?

#2: where the hell does one get a qualitative improvement? I am about 12K/year shooter, plus at least the same dry-fire volume, I cut down my 3-4 annual classes to zero for 2012 just to allocate time and resources to practice. I probably can shoot more volume-wise, and perhaps just a bit more dry-fire, but I have too many interests in life to increase my training exponentially.

This whole post, of course, is not about "how to help YVK to make an IDPA expert". It is about the #2 above, how do you find a way to make a next step when you have already been doing this for a few years, how do you - believably - fight off a thought that you're at the max of your potential no matter what or do you need to fight off that thought - maybe you should stop wasting time and money on chasing what you can't get? The man's nature is not to give up, and even non-incremental improvements are gratifying if they are in fact improvements and not random occurrences. As such, I'll enjoy shaving off seconds or minutes from whatever it is that I do, but realistic hope that the next big step is possible would be a nice motivator.

P.S. A practical question, don't know if it is answerable, but I'll ask anyway: given the data (115 sec raw, 44 points down): in practice and preparation, slow down to get better hits, speed up trying to maintain at list the same number of misses, or what? The question is driven by the fact that the overall winner of the match had 71 points down yet beat me by 17 seconds...

[GJM]

YVK:

1) the results of just one classifier are hardly predictive of what your current skill level is.

2) regardless of the intentions of IDPA, it is a game, and knowing you, the kind of shooting you routinely do, does not necessarily translate into IDPA. Do not underestimate how much gaming there is to shooting competitions.

3) many years ago when I shot IPSC, the year I went from B to A was the year I just relaxed and tried to shoot accurately, rather than go beserk* at the sound of the buzzer.

* beserk, adjective -- Injuriously, maniacally, or furiously violent or out of control.

[YVK]

G., I use IDPA simply as a measuring stick of pure shooting skills. There is of course some gaming there [rest assured I walked veeeery slowly, turned into a gun, and had six mags with me just to keep the gun heavy ], but overall, classifier doesn't seem to have a ton of it and is relatively fair assessment tool. You can substitute this with RSS course, or any short format stuff like FAST or DOTW. I had fun doing it, but, being a retentive dude that I am, I couldn't help but ask "how do I know I can do much better?"

[Alaskapopo]

The IDPA classifier is actually a pretty good skills test in my opinion. Stage 3 is the classifier however and you need to get your long game down. I used to pratice the classifier a lot because it challenged a variety of different skills.
Pat

[rob_s]

First or second time you shoot it the classifier is at least as much about becoming comfortable and familiar withe the courses if fire as it is any kind of actual test. Once Boyd that I agree with popo that its a pretty good Ana,uses test, with the caveat that if you're all ate up with bitching about use of cover rules then its a horrible test.

I always tell people shooting it for the first time to ignore the timer and shoot it set the speed you know you can make the hits. Don't lollygag, but don't go screaming away on the ragged edge either.

Does your normal 12k/year include working with a timer? If not, that's another element of the classifier that may be intimidating without realizing it.

[m91196]

I think it is a decent test as well and has a lot of good points as a test.

13 draws so if your slow here it's easy to clean up and this skill translates to real world.

If you choose not to game the advancing and retreating stages you can still do well.

12k a year, I gotta believe you have a raw time in the 80's lurking in there, you just need to light it up

If someone shot a classifier at 71 points down and was HOA you need to do your own thing, ignore the competition.

[YVK]

Does your normal 12k/year include working with a timer? If not, that's another element of the classifier that may be intimidating without realizing it.

Yes, of course. All of my dry fire is with timer. Live fire - yes, but frequency depends on range environment, as 97% of my practice is on indoors range.

[GJM]

So 5 more questions/thoughts:

In the matches you have shot, what were the rankings of other shooters near your scores?

If you repeated the classifier a few times what would be your score?

If you practiced the classifier a few times, woud that change your scores?

If you shot the classifier with your G17, what change, if any, would that have on your score?

If you analyze each run within the overall classifier, can you see specific areas where you have opportunity for improvement?

[gringop]

Here's a good link on m4.com, Todd has a good post in it.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8176

The Collin County IDPA Club also has a good web page on the classifier.
http://www.ccidpa.org/classifier-tips.html

When I shoot the classifier, I concentrate on these aspects.

Know your limitations. I know that have shot sub 2 second Mozambiques clean before, I sure as hell don't try to shoot them in a classifier. Practice is the time to push your limits, not matches or classifiers.

Set realistic goals. Determine a time for each string that you know that you can shoot it clean, figure out where that will put you. I got a spreadsheet from somewhere on the internet that breaks down the times needed. I can't find the original but here is my copy.
http://lonestar.texas.net/~mberg/gun...reak_Down1.xls
This is not my work, props to the original creator whoever you are.
So, comparing your current times to your goals, you can see what needs work and where you can tighten things up.

Transitions. Improving my transitions was a big step in me making Master. Except for the first 3, every stage has target transitions. You can make up a lot of time by having efficient target transitions. Practice using different height targets so you don't freak out when you see them on the real classifier. As gamerish as it may sound, on stage 3 you need to position yourself from the outset so you can see all 3 targets and just transition across them. Pieing out so only one is visible at a time is too frigging slow. As long as you have 100% lower body and 50% upper body behind cover, you are good to go.

Accuracy. Don't accept misses in practice. Even if you are pushing speed, you need to be able to hit that 8" circle, If you start missing, figure out why. Tired, not focused, dust in your eyes, figure it out and fix it. Do not accept misses. Understand that you will probably shooting at targets from 20 yards that are literally covered with tape. Know were the -0 zone is by the general shape of the target, not by seeing the perfs.

Have enough loaded mags so you don't have to futz around reloading mags on the same stage. Keep your mind on your shooting, not digging loose rounds out of your pocket.

Everything else is covered in the two links above.

One other thing, I hear lots of folks say that you shouldn't practice the classifier. They say that doing it will bump you up to a class above your ability. That's BS. My goal is to make Master in every class I shoot. I can't make that without practicing the skills needed. That doesn't mean that I setup a 90 round classifier at every practice. That means that I practice Mozambiques, transitions, draws, barricade work ect. I do work in some of the stages to get a feel for where I am when a classifier is coming up.

Gringop

[rob_s]

Yes, of course. All of my dry fire is with timer. Live fire - yes, but frequency depends on range environment, as 97% of my practice is on indoors range.

See, that answer to me would be "no". Wheat I'm thinking of is regularly utilizing the timer in live fire and incorporating movement, etc. not that there's a lot of movement in the classifier, but if you can do it quickly while moving you can do it better standing still.

Almost none of my practice is done in an indoor range or limited by stalls, etc. I'm not the most accurate shooter in the world but this is why I can regularly beat shooters that may perform better on Dot Torture or similar static drills. My performance is hampered now by the accuracy issue, not a movement or speed issue.

Can you break down your points down into the following groups?
-penalties (procedurals like cover, etc.)
-accuracy (-1s and -3s)