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Thread: Tactical Movement (How to see the a-hole before he see you)...

  1. #1
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    Tactical Movement (How to see the a-hole before he see you)...

    Okay, so even using the word "tactical" makes me cringe, but it was the best I could come up with.

    So this is a really a two-part inquiry, and a wide ranging one at that. I am thinking of situations in which we know, or believe, (big) trouble is afoot and we need to move either toward or away from the problem area without getting shot. This could encompass anything from checking on loved ones in the residence after a bump in the night to being caught in a Kroger or outlet mall when an active shooter cracks off; or a cop in Dallas with the shooter in front of us as we try to use a building column for cover. [In the active shooter scenario, I would posit that the same tactics/movement patterns that would be recommended for trying to hunt and put down the shooter would also be a best practice if we were trying to find an exit.]

    Knowing that this is a huge topic and one that likely cannot ever be truly "mastered", there are nonetheless pressure-tested protocols that can be employed toward the goal of seeing the a-hole before he sees us and being in a tactically (there's that dang word again) superior position before we engage (or disengage). I am specifically *not* thinking about a street robbery type situation where you are already inside bad-breath distance when things unfold. I am thinking more movement to (or away from) contact.

    First (and main question) is what training outfits do this well? I would be looking for a very low round count class because the nuggets I seek have little to do with actually pulling the trigger vice the movements that precede that. I would think that most of this sort of training could/would/should be done dry. (But maybe I'm wrong.) (I took a quick look at training available from Craig Douglas, but did not see an AMIS class offered anywhere near me. But that would be the sort of thing I'm thinking of.)

    Second, to the extent possible, do you guys have any pro-tips that can be conveyed via a post here? Also, any book recommendations would be great. (I totally get that this is best learned in a training class.)
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  2. #2
    I'm not the right person to actually try to answer your questions, but I do think it would help if you'd say what counts as "near you." I took a neat 1 day low light/home defense class at The Range Complex in Autryville, NC that I'd say would be a good starting point for what you're asking about. Pat Goodale up in WV has a shoothouse class (full for this year, looks like). But if you're out in Colorado or something, that info may not be much help. I agree with you about there not being much need for live fire, but I also think that's unusual, because people like to shoot.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  3. #3
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    I’m in SW Virginia. Would drive up to 12 hours for the right class
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter gringop's Avatar
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    CSAT has a few courses that might give you what you want.

    AIT, CQT and maybe UDC.

    https://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/general-5

    Gringop
    Play that song about the Irish chiropodist. Irish chiropodist? "My Fate Is In Your Hands."

  5. #5
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Wayyyy out of my lane, but John Murphy springs to mind. IIRC he is in Virginia?

    https://www.fpftraining.com/

    I still remember the AAA rule from his presentation at Tac Con 2017, "...Always Avoid Assholes..."

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    TBH, a bowhunting stalking class or a paintball field might be more useful than a square range “shooter” class for the skills needed to move and observe covertly. I agree that, if one doesn’t have access to something like AMIS, there’s not a ton of classes on the radar that are specific to covert movement.

    With the caveat that our resident SME on CQB has often said that CQB has a specific meaning around team tactics, I will say that I found some good things in this kindle book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Single-Person.../dp/B01MTVTV8R

    You might also find something to pique your interest in the oeuvre of this author, here:

    https://www.amazon.com/stores/Matthe...alEnabled=true

    If nothing else, practice makes perfect. How close can you get to someone in a mall or hiking trail before they notice you? You’d be amazed.

    I’ll follow this thread. I’d love to take a good class dedicated to this topic.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  7. #7
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post

    If nothing else, practice makes perfect. How close can you get to someone in a mall or hiking trail before they notice you? You’d be amazed.
    Not sure if it part of the current curriculum but Ed Calderon used to do this on the second day of his class. Go to a mall and see how many playing cards you can slip into pockets or go to a designated store and pick the painted padlock on the clothing rack. Doing the "covert in the overt" and one learns a lot about how oblivious most people are and the lessons are really easy to reverse engineer. The best trophy "earned" was a mall cop's radio so there's your testament to most security measures.

    To the thread, Kyle Defoor has discussed such movement in his open enrollment classes; but it depends on the make-up and flow of the class. He has some good examples from organizations that sometimes have solo or paired individuals working OCONUS and need to slip away when things get a weird vibe.
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

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  8. #8
    I would be quite careful about stalking or planting objects on people. They may assume an attack or pickpocket.

    You may rightfully be assumed to have bad intentions and some people will react with fell intent.

    Some of the people I trained with would lock your joints at the first uninvited physical contact, if you fought they would hurt you.

    Some would just hurt you from the beginning.

    Others, if followed would lead you into a bad place.

    Some of these had bad experiences and tended to be sudden.

    I am not making any moral or legal arguments, just things I have been around in the past.

  9. #9
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    Paul Howe has a video on Panteao called Active Shooter Response for Civilians which has (short I think) chapters on exterior movement, hallways, and doorways. Gonna check this out pretty soon. But those are precisely the things I am seeking. For the record, not really looking for material on how to use cover/concealment per se, but anything thoughtful on that would be fine as well.
    ETA: Any good material on dealing with stairwells would be welcome, although short of being able to prep the lower areas from above with grenades, I think stairwells are just gonna suck.
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 1slow View Post

    Some of the people I trained with would lock your joints at the first uninvited physical contact, if you fought they would hurt you.

    Some would just hurt you from the beginning.

    Others, if followed would lead you into a bad place.
    I laughed and smiled at this for an inordinate amount of time. Epic!
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

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