Next best option??
https://nypost.com/2023/05/02/shocki...on-nyc-subway/
Next best option??
https://nypost.com/2023/05/02/shocki...on-nyc-subway/
I wonder if the passerby had legit BJJ skills or just saw a few UFC fights.
The RNC is an incredibly useful tool, but any choke is dangerous if one is not able to recognize when someone's out. They may still make noise or thrash around a bit when unconscious. They won't always close their eyes either. Really freaky to see sometimes
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
Wonder if there will be a postmortem tox screen?
The person who applied the choke is going to be brought up on charges.
I am not meaning to be smug, but:
1. It is New York City and criminals and crazy people are protected species.
2. They will argue that the guy was just being mentally ill/on drugs and loud as many people are on New York streets and had not yet attacked anyone nor was there evidence that he would--just like the rest of those mentally ill individuals who scare people all the time in New York City. The fact that this type of thing is so commonplace in New York City is the very problem in the first place. I think that there is a justified frustration among law abiding citizens about this type of thing.
3. Everyone will be saying that he should have released the choke sooner. Even if the guy was on drugs and it was a contributing factor in his death, the question is would he have died at all if the choke
wasn't applied at that moment.
4. The person choked was black and the person doing the choking was white. Given everything that has been going on for the last 3 years, need I say more?
Below is a pamphlet from 1975 when crime in New York City was high and members of the NYPD were going to be laid off due to a fiscal crisis. I believe this was printed by some police union or organization under some other organization's name.
Last edited by Ed L; 05-03-2023 at 04:12 AM.
I think @Ed L is right. The headline and article don't seem sympathetic to the choker. Once the case gets to the DA I would expect manslaughter charges.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
That isn't smug. It's a dose of reality some people apparently need. The threshold a lot of folks have in their mind for using force is poorly calibrated. Which isn't hard to do, since it seems to vary so much depending on location.Originally Posted by Ed L
Gesticulating wildly and talking crazy isn't adequate justification to go hands on in most places. Even if it were, it's going to be really, really difficult to argue self defense when you proactively start the fight from behind them. That's going to be the legal mechanism they use, isn't it? Even if their argument is "I was just trying to keep him restrained until we got to the next station so the NYPD could pick him up."“He started screaming in an aggressive manner,” Vazquez told The Post. “He said he had no food, he had no drink, that he was tired and doesn’t care if he goes to jail. He started screaming all these things, took off his jacket, a black jacket that he had, and threw it on the ground.”
That’s when he said the straphanger came up behind Neely and took him to the ground in a chokehold — keeping him there for some 15 minutes, Vazquez said.
You go to court with the laws you have, not the laws you want.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/35.15
Am I interpreting this correctly? The inevitable prosecution is going to argue this was using "deadly physical force" (35.15.2) with a duty to retreat since other people had already (safely) moved to a different subway car and the defendant could have as well (since he was able to sneak up behind the guy).
Was this guy a tourist or a resident? I've never been to NY but the difference between Duty To Retreat states and Stand Your Ground states seems like something worth pondering. It sounds like any fight you're in while in NY should include at least some attempt at satisfying the "duty to retreat" requirement since you probably won't know until after the fact whether the force you're using is "deadly physical force".The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating;
“no puedo respirar”
Being training in a martial art, may not be a good thing as you should know the lethal aspects of your actions. I've read some lawyer stuff on trained folks liability. Buried in some folder, somewhere... Didn't we have a thread on the problems of the hold from experts?
Harks back to Goetz? In that case, the young men were presented as definitely threatened him.
Also in this case, there were two other men helping to restrain him, which might argue for releasing the hold.
The evaluation has just started.
Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 05-03-2023 at 08:59 AM.
Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age
Investigation and outrage: https://nypost.com/2023/05/03/manhat...-subway-death/
Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age
That article said the kid held the choke for 15 minutes. If this kid doesn’t end up in prison in the end, I’ll be quite surprised.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Reply With Quote