Shooting aggressive dogs while running

[blues]

Pits can be incredibly aggressive and almost immune to pain when they are in attack mode, while most other dogs can be deterred with a baton strike that’s not always the case when it comes to pit bulls. Dog breeds are in fact different, you can’t make the same comparison with people. Dogs are breed to be a certain way, strong aggressive and being able to endure pain is what the pit was breed for. Add in a POS owner that treats and trains the dog to be so and there often is no quit in them until you kill them. Sorry but dog breeds are very different and there is ample proof of it.

As I recently found out and discussed in another thread. I kicked and beat the tar out of that dog on its back and spine with a blackthorn stick and it didn't release from aggressing against my dog...and I'm not a shrinking violet. (I couldn't get a head shot with the stick because of the proximity of their heads in the fight.)

The "stick" I am carrying now would break its back, I've no doubt. (I am still loathe to shoot one, let alone stab one, unless I feel there is no other way out.)

[HCM]

1) You have not met "all dogs." I'm not particularly athletic, but I am certainly more athletic than some of my neighbor dogs, particularly the geriatric ones. The beagle and chihuahua across the street may have been forces to reckon with in their day, but I could crush either of them today. And today is all that matters.

2) Athletic ability, like IQ and good looks, exists within a population as a distribution. Some people are on the smart end of the curve and others are not. As a breed, pits are on the athletic end of the athleticism spectrum. If you randomly chose ten pits and compared their ability to ten chihuahuas, it is almost 100% certain that the pits could run faster, jump higher, and bite harder than the chihuahuas.

3) Pits are indeed common. The two people I know personally know well (1st cousin and next-door neighbor) who suffered dog attacks that required medical treatment were both attached by pit bulls.

Just found this: "DogsBite.org recorded 46 fatal dog attacks in 2020. Pit bulls contributed to 72% (33) of these deaths, over 16 times higher than any other dog breed."
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2021/06/20...iscussion.html

I don't think pits are 16x more popular than the second most popular dog breed.

Dog bite.org is not a credible source.

First their sub-title “because sone dogs don’t let go” makes their position clear.



Second, not because they’re wrong and “my” data is right, but rather because Their (Dogbite.org’s) data is inaccurate and they are misrepresenting it. ANY data about dog attacks is inaccurate, because studies have repeatedly proven that breed identification by witnesses, shelter workers and veterinarians is often inaccurate. Given my experience with the reliability of witnesses in other matters this is not surprising.

A study done by Dr. James Serpell and team says the following:

Dog bite statistics are potentially misleading for several reasons: (a) most dog bites go unreported unless medical attention is sought (which may be more likely with larger breeds that have the ability to inflict more serious injury); (b) the total number of dogs of a given breed in the local community is seldom known, so the degree to which that breed is over-represented among reported dog bites is usually undetermined (Lockwood, 1995; however see Gershman et al., 1994; Guy et al., 2001b; Reisner et al., 2005); and (c) in many cases the breed of dog involved cannot be verified (Wright, 1991).

None of this means an aggressive pit isn’t a threat. It’s just no more (or less) of a threat than any other aggressive large breed.

[Warped Mindless]

Generally*, the same as shooting any other living being: an articulation that you were in fear of grievous bodily harm or death, and that articulation meeting the reasonable man standard. An articulation isn't just a statement that you were scared of getting bit; an articulation is citing specific observations about the attacker's actions and behaviors (to include history) that made you believe you were at risk of grievous bodily harm. Just because you've been bitten 3 times does not give you the right to shoot any dog that starts chasing you while you're out jogging.

This thread reads more like you're pissed off and almost want to find a reason to shoot a dog as opposed to giving any critical thought to your situation. That's likely why you got the "vigilante" comment from @Clusterfrack, or the comment by @Hambo, both of whom are overwhelmingly helpful dudes that don't shitpost just to get under peoples' skin. IMO, it's not the best read for you if a prosecutor were to get their hands on it after you were to shoot a dog and have things go sideways.

*state specific laws may outline more detailed situations in dispatching animals, but this is the general rule of thumb.

Thanks for the answer.

If I go the rest of my life without ever having to kill another living thing (except spiders), I’ll be a happy man. In retrospect, the tone of my first post could have been a bit different but no, I’m not looking to kill any animals. I don’t even hunt.

[CraigS]

I was just curious. I see your point about not prejudging based on breed but admit that I probably would. I know pits don't automatically have to be killers, and I haven't researched this but, in my experience, a huge percentage of news items about someone being injured or killed by a dog turns out it was a pit. To me the difference between finding out if the dog will actually be biting me vs a preemptive shot will be about 3 seconds. Lots of thinking and decision making to happen in 3 seconds.

[Warped Mindless]

Really? I didn't read it like that at all.

The whole thing reads to me like acknowledging that there's a potential threat and having the awareness to realize that once a fight starts it's likely downhill from there. So it's best to realize the pre-fight cues and know ahead of time where the threshold is for the fight to be something other than one-way. (And the ultimate, obvious conclusion of "yea it sucks but don't run in neighborhoods with a bunch of shitty dog owners' off leash pits.")

I absolutely, positively do not want to shoot a dog or any other sentient creature. But I also absolutely, positively will not just stand idly by and get mauled. Dogs aren't different from people in that once they start a fight only they know where they're going to stop. You have no choice but to respond accordingly.

The undercurrent of everyone in society needs to learn some dog whisperer skills because shitty people can't be bothered to socialize their animals is... bizarre. But then again I'm not a dog person. And I don't think I should have to be in order to not end up in court or the ER just because I was checking the mail.

My feelings exactly!

[Dave Williams]

None of this means an aggressive pit isn’t a threat. It’s just no more (or less) of a threat than any other aggressive large breed.

So I thought this was utter BS, and I called my Animal Control Officer for her opinion. She has 25yrs experience in an inner ring suburb loaded with pit bulls, I've seen her do some really crazy stuff. She agreed with your statement and said she'd rather go against a pit than an Akita or a German Shepherd.

[Zincwarrior]

Be prepared for an immediate, aggressive confrontation with the dog’s owners if you shoot someone’s dog.

I would proffer a really good pepper spray/mace would be better. A follow on confrontation would be less likely, and the police aren't coming / you being sued because you sprayed Biff the lovable house pet vs. blasting away in the street.

[Gadfly]

People thought Chows were a huge threat...
Then people thought German Shepards were a huge threat...
Then People thought Dobermans were a huge threat...
Then People thought Rottweilers were a huge threat...
Then People thought Pits were a huge threat...
Who know what the next breed will be that people and the media flip out about.

I get that any dog can be a threat. But I am not that worried about a beagle bite...

SIDE NOTES:
My dad tells of when he was a child in the 1940s. The lived next door to a retired preacher and his wife. They had a chow. One day, the chow flipped out and mauled the elderly pastor, BADLY. As my Grandfather pulled into the driveway, he heard the wife screaming, as she was trying to pull the dog off her husband, and was getting bit too. Granddad was a carpenter, so he grabbed a hunk of 2x4 from the bed of his truck, and knocked the dog off the preacher. The dog then came at him and got another taste of Texas pine. So the dog went back to the preacher. Granddad went back to the truck for his M1 Carbine, and ended the problem. The preacher died of his wounds a few weeks later. His wife had permanent hand injuries... My dad was very distrustful of Chows. I will end up with the M1-carbine from that day.

When I was an apartment manager, my maintenance man's young son was bit in the face by the family dog.. a chow mix. kid lived, but had like 20-30 stiches on his little face. Scars for life. Maintenance man put the dog down...

END of RANDOM RAMBLINGS....

[HCM]

I was just curious. I see your point about not prejudging based on breed but admit that I probably would. I know pits don't automatically have to be killers, and I haven't researched this but, in my experience, a huge percentage of news items about someone being injured or killed by a dog turns out it was a pit. To me the difference between finding out if the dog will actually be biting me vs a preemptive shot will be about 3 seconds. Lots of thinking and decision making to happen in 3 seconds.

What does and doesn’t make the news is selective / locally driven at best - manipulated at worst.

Not to mention I’ve been present for a party to events that were covered by the media, and could barely recognize it as the same event based on their coverage.

I’ve personally seen both LEOs and regular people who have 1) reacted to any medium to large dog as a threat regardless of breed or behavior because / afraid of dogs and / or 2) reacted any pit as a threat regress of behavior because / pit and then fail to react to actual aggressive or warning behavior by other breeds they consider “nice.”

For background my city particularly the east and west sides has a huge problem with loose dogs and strays. Our relatively mild winters enhance the problem to the point there are NGO groups dedicated to facilitating adoptions of our strays to northern states and Canada where there are fewer strays available for adoption as most of their local strats don’t make it through the winters.

[Robinson]

I live in Ohio. For those who don’t know, in Ohio, everyone and their mother owns a pitbull.

Why?

I have no idea but it’s ridiculous because the vast majority of owners are NOT responsible.

Anyways, now that warmer months are upon us I want to start running outside again but curious about the legalities of shooting an aggressive dog that gives chase.

I’ve been bit by attacking dogs before and I will NOT allow that to happen again.

I’ve been around enough dogs to know when one is just being playful and chasing for fun. I get that and bo worries. My concern is the unchained pitt that starts aggressively chasing.

Here is the deal… I know all the “typical” advice of stopping, turning sideways, not looking the dog in the eyes and slowly backing away and I’m not doing ANY of that. Who ever wrote that BS hasn’t had to deal with the dogs around here.

I also get that the most obvious COA is to run elsewhere but there is no where in my AO that doesn’t have aggressive dogs around and frankly I’m sick of not being able to run outside.

So, hoping to hear from some more experienced members in this area but, in general, what are the requirements for shooting a dog that gives chase and one that you believe is aggressive?

Again, just to restate, I’ve been attacked by dogs before and I’m not ever allowing that to happen again so if it seems I’m “to quick to what to shoot the poor fur baby” that’s why.

If you are attacked by a dog and faced with death or serious injury you have a right to use lethal force to defend yourself. I think it's fair to say the membership of this forum is generally supportive of the right to legitimate self defense. However...

Knowingly and willingly putting yourself in a situation in which you are likely to face a dog problem that can only be solved by using lethal force sounds like a good way to guarantee you will at some point be faced with an unpleasant and possibly dangerous problem with a human.