.308 Semi-Auto Rifle

[Archimagirus]

Here is my dilemma guys, and I respect everyone's opinions on here to actually post this for some thoughtful answers. I recently came into a little bit of money and want to acquire a semi-auto .308 to round out my collection. Unfortunately, my collection is totally utilitarian, I don't have the income or desire to acquire guns simply to have them anymore. As such, this rifle would used for primarily three things, target shooting, self defense and possibly hunting (assuming I was lucky enough to draw). To add a little bit of a twist to this discussion, I am extremely recoil sensitive. I have a defect in my right shoulder that basically allows it to slip out of socket if I relax my shoulder muscles or if it is jarred. As a little bit of background, I used to own a FAL, and while I love the way the gun looks, it was very uncomfortable for me to shoot. I also respect the fact that on his website, Larry Vickers says it is his favorite .308 battle rifle. Also knowing what I know about that platform, it was originally designed for a much smaller, much weaker cartridge, and shooting a .308 or 7.61x51 cartridge out of it is marginal. I would prefer a platform that utilizes easy to acquire parts and magazines, and I am really trying not to break the bank.

The platforms I have considered are:
FN Scar 17
FN AR
Colt LE-901
Sigarms 716
DSA Arms Fal
Bushmaster\DPMS\Remington Flavor AR10 Variant
CMMG's new .308

Anyone with experience with any of these platforms please chime in and let me know what you think about them.

codisimo

[TGS]

Codisimo,

I know you didn't list it, but I was sort of surprised you didn't given your desire to not break the bank.

The VEPR made by Molot. $599 for the 20" 308 at CenterfireSystems.com.

It's built on the RPK receiver, so it's thicker, heavier and stiffer than a standard AK receiver along with a slightly heavier barrel compared to other 308/7.62x51 AK rifles. Most people on the forums who have one report it being a solid sub-2MOA rifle. Standard mags are expensive at $39, but the rifle comes with a 5 and 10 round which will be fine for hunting. If you want to go battle rifle with it, there are 20 round mags as well...again, not the cheapest thing, but the cost of the rifle is a huge advantage.

I'm thinking about buying one and got my hands on one 2 weeks ago. It felt nice, to say the least....especially for an AK. Unlike what a lot of critics cite as being "too heavy," I didn't find that at all.....it felt fairly light for what it is. Actually, it is very light for what it is. The 308 VEPR is lighter than a comparable FAL, G3, as well as the SIG 716 and most other AR10 pattern rifles. They look nice, too, with decently figured Walnut stocks unlike the plethora of crap grade walnut on American rifles these days.

They also have higher grade versions with push button safeties, supposedly better triggers, a less traditional stock that covers the whole receiver, and so on.

As for recoil and your shoulder, I can't comment. Of course, short of spending a fortune and buying the SCAR-H, I think the best way to work with recoil on a 308 is to hand load, i.e. if you're shooting at a deer 200 yards away, you don't need a full power cartridge.

The only disadvantage I can think of with the VEPR (having not owned one) is that the cheekweld sucks with a scope. However, you can buy Dragunov SVD styled stocks (synthetic, wood, or aluminum) to address that, or you can buy/make a Karsen adjustable cheekrest. Still a cheap package that is reliable and shoots sub-2 MOA.

Just a thought, even though it wasn't on your list. Seems to match what you're looking for quite well, so I wasn't sure if you had considered it. Me personally, I'm thinking of buying the 20" 308.

[DocGKR]

If you shoulder is that bad, why not stay with an AR15--perhaps in 6.5, 6.8, .300 BLK if you want more umph for hunting?

In .308 it is very simple: for pure long range shooting get a LaRue OBR. For a general purpose rig get a LaRue PredatOBR. For a run and gun carbine get a LaRue PredatAR or KAC EMC. The FN Mk17 works well, but might kick harder than you want and is hard on some optics do to the recoil impulse. You already stated the FAL does not work for you, so the DSA FAL is out. I am not excited about anything else you listed.

[F-Trooper05]

My buddy's duty gun is a SCAR Heavy (he's a Fed who uses it for bear protection mostly), and the recoil is barley much greater than a 5.56 AR. The fact that it comes standard with a compensator helps a lot. It's been out long enough for there to be plenty of after market accessories for it (IE: mags, extended rail sections, Geissle trigger, etc.). If I had to get a 7.62 today, that would be it. A LaRue OBR might be a distant second, but good luck finding anything from LaRue right now that doesn't have Chris Costa's logo stamped all over it.

[tremiles]

Do you currently have a 5.56 AR and what kind of range are you looking to punch paper at? If you're not looking at long range target shooting, have you considered 300BLK? Low recoil, same magazines and BCG as 5.56, relatively low priced factory ammunition (comparable to. 308-7.62/51). Or you could consider 6.8SPC that would require a different bolt/mags. 6.8SPC has better long range ballistics than 300BLK.

Both would be easier on your shoulder than .308, in a lighter platform for hunting and only require an upper change (+bolt and mags for 6.8) if you've already got a 5.56 AR.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

[secondstoryguy]

I've owned a few different .308 semis in my search for perfection. I settled on the 16" LMT MWS platform and its been flawless. It's an honest sub MOA gun, very reliable and well built. Dont let the shorter barrels fool you, they can reach out a ways with surprising accuracy. A nice feature is that you can switch barrels in a few minutes with included tools. The Brits and several other countries are fielding them with good results. The higher end version of this is the Knights EMC .308 carbine, which has the same lower but comes in a little lighter and has some other internal differences geared toward hard use reliability.

I would take also take a hard look at Larue's offerings too. I've spent a little time behind a few Larue .308s and they are very sweet and extremely accurate.

As a side note keep in mind that .308s are heavy. There is no free lunch as the you have to have mass to counter the larger cartridge. By the time you put optics on top and accessories they are beasts. You can run them fast and hard but your form has to be perfect and holding them in a ready/off hand position for an extended time is an isometric workout.

[Al T.]

Only thing I can add is that if recoil is an issue and (and!) you plan to hunt with it, get a Battlecomp .308 compensator. There are other, less expensive and more recoil reducing comps out there, but my experience with a 5.56 BC is that they reduce recoil and don't increase the noise as much as other comps.

[GJM]

Have two SCAR H's, and like them so much I have sold, or am selling every other .308 semi-auto I have (SR-25's, FN-FAL, M1A Bush, M1A Socom, Larue PedatAR). I was enthusiastic about the PredatAR as a second .308 system, but have heard of too many reliability issues with them.

[Alaskapopo]

If you shoulder is that bad, why not stay with an AR15--perhaps in 6.5, 6.8, .300 BLK if you want more umph for hunting?

In .308 it is very simple: for pure long range shooting get a LaRue OBR. For a general purpose rig get a LaRue PredatOBR. For a run and gun carbine get a LaRue PredatAR or KAC EMC. The FN Mk17 works well, but might kick harder than you want and is hard on some optics do to the recoil impulse. You already stated the FAL does not work for you, so the DSA FAL is out. I am not excited about anything else you listed.

My SCAR 17 kicks less than my former AR10's I used to own. Have not been able to do a side by side with it compared to a PredatOBR.

Here is mine. I use it as my patrol rifle.

This rifle has been flawless for me. Its a solid 1.5 moa rifle with my reloads using match bullets. Its 2.5 moa with ball and just under 2 moa with 155 grain Hornady Tap.
Here is me shooting it last weekend in a three gun match. It does have a lot more recoil than a 5.56 gun. But its not uncomfortable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC0GURYlLLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGj8xWDK_Jk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJBb_09TWz8

For comparision in recoil to my 5.56 Noveske 3 gun rifle with a Titan comp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTGwNcerSdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOyzMSB92cA

I was 5 seconds faster with the 5.56 on the short course and about 30 seconds faster with the 5.56 on the long range standards stage (standing sitting prone)
Pat

[Odin Bravo One]

I have fired tens of thousands of rounds through the SCAR family, every generation, and configuration.

I bought a Pred.