Sig 320 has me wary for aiwb

[HCM]

Agreed, I just need to put more time in with the Glock.
We’ve had a few uncommanded discharges within my department, just doesn’t inspire confidence in the platform for me.

We issue the 320 and may be one one the largest non DOD users.

I’m skeptical of any claim of a post June 2019 320 having a true “uncommanded discharge” meaning a discharge solely due to a mechanical failure. Unlike earlier P320 issues, none of the alleged issues with post 2019 guns have been replicated in post incident testing.

That said the 320 has a short, light trigger pull. It’s strength is it’s easy to shoot, it’s weakness is it’s easy to shoot i.e it’s unforgiving. I would not call out anyone for being uncomfortable carrying such a gun without a manual safety.

Along those lines, even though there have been no instances of uncommanded discharges in the P365 series, which is internally different than the 320, the 365 series also has a short light trigger pull.

[gale155]

My vote would be for the P365 as well.

[45dotACP]

Even if it were a fully drop safe version, I wouldn't carry a 320 appendix.

A short, light trigger, no safety, appendix carried? Definitely no.

But neither would I carry a PPQ, VP9, PDP or a cocked TDA pistol appendix.


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[maximus83]

We issue the 320 and may be one one the largest non DOD users.

I’m skeptical of any claim of a post June 2019 320 having a true “uncommanded discharge” meaning a discharge solely due to a mechanical failure. Unlike earlier P320 issues, none of the alleged issues with post 2019 guns have been replicated in post incident testing.

That said the 320 has a short, light trigger pull. It’s strength is it’s easy to shoot, it’s weakness is it’s easy to shoot i.e it’s unforgiving. I would not call out anyone for being uncomfortable carrying such a gun without a manual safety.

Along those lines, even though there have been no instances of uncommanded discharges in the P365 series, which is internally different than the 320, the 365 series also has a short light trigger pull.

This covers it concisely. I had two recent-manufacture 320's the last year, sold them. Not because I thought the design was inherently unsafe, though all the reports were disconcerting. In the end after shooting mine for a while, there were two things: (1) I subjectively didn't like shooting them as well as my Glocks, they were *slightly* less accurate (which could have been me) and were more flippy in recoil, and (2) it seemed likely that most recent discharges we've heard about were due to it being a short, light SA trigger. Item (2) really concerned me, it's not exactly the same thing but it's a *bit* like 1911 without a thumb safety and grip safety. And as much as I like the 365 XL/Macro's that I have, they really have the same trigger issue in versions without a manual safety.

My primary is still a G19.5 with SCD. But considering adding a MS to my 365's so I could carry AIWB.

[JonInWA]

While generally speaking I'm not a fan of appendix carry for non-manual safety striker-fired pistols, I would be particularly wary of doing so with a P320 (unless one of the manual safety models). The short, light, and soft breaking trigger is an invitation to disaster, in my opinion.

The trigger characteristics of a Glock make it a bit more amenable for appendix carry-and better yet with a SCD or RDIH/BH Spring Solutions TSSG manual safety.

Best, Jon

[TheNewbie]

While generally speaking I'm not a fan of appendix carry for non-manual safety striker-fired pistols, I would be particularly wary of doing so with a P320 (unless one of the manual safety models). The short, light, and soft breaking trigger is an invitation to disaster, in my opinion.

The trigger characteristics of a Glock make it a bit more amenable for appendix carry-and better yet with a SCD or RDIH/BH Spring Solutions TSSG manual safety.

Best, Jon

I wish someone would come up with an ergonomic, in production, thumb safety for Glocks. I know there is the BH spring solution option, but I would prefer a traditional safety that works for the Gen 5s, and is made by someone like LTT.


The P320 AIWB would be a no go for me. Even a drop safe version. The trigger characteristics are not something I feel comfortable with in general, but especially in AIWB.


The only AIWB non safety gun that I sort of feel comfortable carrying, is a revolver.


I saw an ex Delta guy talk about AIWB carrying his NON safety P320 AIWB. He does so with out a holster, or trigger cover. That’s a guy I would take mindset and tactics advice from, but I would seek non shooting weapons handling advice from someone else.

[358156hp]

Details on the so-called "uncommanded" discharges are really sketchy. As I've mentioned before the issue of the holsters involved has been mentioned, including some agencies may have been reusing holsters from their last model of purchase (presumably Glocks). I checked the trigger pull weights from three P320s, and the Custom Works trigger was a consistent 4 lb, while the standard triggers were 5+ lb. The triggers are not the same width as the trigger guards, but average perhaps 3/16 narrower on each side than the trigger guard. I don't see any epiphanys in this area at all. Length of trigger pull is fairly lengthy but consistent which makes the trigger pull feel lighter than the trigger pull weights would suggest. FWIW, the two P320s with standard triggers had nearly identical pull weights even though one of them was one of the early guns that had been through the factory upgrade. I'm certain SIG didn't test the issue with the holsters the pistols were fired in. That would be outside their scope of liability if the issues were caused by accessories, regardless of who made them. Didn't Glock have a similar issue in their early days?

From what I've heard so far, the P320s involved passed inspection and testing not only by SIG, but also unnamed experts. P320 is a popular gun in IPSC competition as well, and outside of one P320 Legion having an internal failure causing discharge several years ago the competition world doesn't seem to be seeing these issues. I'm leaning towards training issues, or support equipment issues. If we could only see some actual statistics on this situation...

[LittleLebowski]

G48 with S15 mags and an SCD.

[sharps54]

G48 with S15 mags and an SCD.

Do we know if the slim frame SCD’s will be offered again?

[HCM]

Details on the so-called "uncommanded" discharges are really sketchy. As I've mentioned before the issue of the holsters involved has been mentioned, including some agencies may have been reusing holsters from their last model of purchase (presumably Glocks). I checked the trigger pull weights from three P320s, and the Custom Works trigger was a consistent 4 lb, while the standard triggers were 5+ lb. The triggers are not the same width as the trigger guards, but average perhaps 3/16 narrower on each side than the trigger guard. I don't see any epiphanys in this area at all. Length of trigger pull is fairly lengthy but consistent which makes the trigger pull feel lighter than the trigger pull weights would suggest. FWIW, the two P320s with standard triggers had nearly identical pull weights even though one of them was one of the early guns that had been through the factory upgrade. I'm certain SIG didn't test the issue with the holsters the pistols were fired in. That would be outside their scope of liability if the issues were caused by accessories, regardless of who made them. Didn't Glock have a similar issue in their early days?

From what I've heard so far, the P320s involved passed inspection and testing not only by SIG, but also unnamed experts. P320 is a popular gun in IPSC competition as well, and outside of one P320 Legion having an internal failure causing discharge several years ago the competition world doesn't seem to be seeing these issues. I'm leaning towards training issues, or support equipment issues. If we could only see some actual statistics on this situation...

The agencies and individuals re-utilizing old holsters are normally using prior SIG 226/229 holsters not Glock holsters. I don’t think at 320 will fit in a Glock holster. 320s will also fit into some S&W M&P holsters.

Since the “unnamed experts,” you’re dancing around are probably the gunsmiths and engineers who work for my agency I’m just gonna be blunt. We are probably the largest user of the 320 in the US outside the DOD. We went from a Sigg 229 dock to the 328. There’s been a fairly consistent trend of agencies, going from traditional double action, or double action automatics to striker, fired guns seeing an increase in negligent discharges. We saw the same initial increase.

In some of those instances we have events where individuals were witnessed with their finger on the trigger. Yet we have those same individuals insisting they did not, either to preserve their ego or seeking a payday. In one instance, an individual was witnessed with their finger on the trigger admitted they had their finger on the trigger in a post incident investigation and then turned around and filed a lawsuit claiming the gun went off all by itself contrary to their prior statements. That’s an integrity issue not a mechanical failure. Every issued or personally owned agency approved gun involved in a negligent discharge gets sent to our national firearms unit whose staff includes both full time professional gunsmiths and credentialed mechanical engineers who do gun and ammo related work full time. None of the claimed uncommanded discharges have been replicated and all 320s involved have been examined and all safety mechanisms have been fully functional.

At least one of the individuals who is a plaintiff in the latest lawsuit against SIG claiming “uncommanded discharge” had an ND when they reholstered with a bunch of shirt tail in their trigger guard. Another had a 320 in a cloth pocket in the middle of a purse, with no protection for the trigger guard, which was then thrown into the back of a vehicle.

As I said, the trigger of the 320 is unforgiving. You can’t get away with the same b******t you could with a gun that had a longer heavier trigger pull.

Moving on….

The guy who put out the video of his Legion discharging at a competition left out a few facts. Most significant being it was not a stock gun. It had its internals replaced with an aftermarket trigger / fire control kit from Armory Craft.

It’s also odd that he waited over 2 years to release the video.