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Thread: Appropriate level of skill to carry concealed, responsibly?

  1. #91
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    Also…

    For skill it should be more like the green line and not a bell curve at all.

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    The bell curve is confusing because it’s just his description of how much he thinks gear matters.

    So blue line is population.

    Green line is skill.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    I think you’re misreading it.

    The bell curve there isn’t bell curve of population

    It’s bell curve of skill.

    So like if you take USPSA percent for example.

    Even a D class 30% shooter is still 10x better than the average shooter.

    If you look at his percents, he’s saying that IDPA marksman is BETTER than around 95% of shooters.
    That was my interpretation too.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post

    The bell curve is confusing because it’s just his description of how much he thinks gear matters.
    I think Riley's mention of gear makes his article more confusing. That's what I was alluding to when I said "The first part of the article gets a little off track, in my opinion...".

  3. #93
    Tactical Nobody Guerrero's Avatar
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    Skill and experience weigh nothing, and you have them with you all the time.

  4. #94
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    Decision-making
    No Shoot/Shoot
    Intervention
    Verbal Confrontation
    Interaction with the Police
    Given the current incidents we see. Old men shooting innocents through the door, a turn around in their driveway, etc, coming out the door with a gun in their hand to face the police - Knowing how to deal with Decision making seems a tad more important than split times, which seems to dominate the game view of SD. While state mandatory gun ownership classes seem contrary to the BOR, it certainly seems that some folks need a good legal lecture to tame their shoot 'em up responses.

    Claude has it on the money for the 'real world' gun user as compared to our bubble. How many of us have taken classes, either private or state mandated and heard the shoot 'em to save the VCR (in those days) responses from some in the class?

    Stay in the house or the truck and call the law - that should be a rule. I worry about older folks (I am), full of gun/legal myths and diminished impulse control. There are medical articles discussing diminished capacity for all kinds of realms, driving for example - while not wanting to violate rights, gun usage is something to be considered by loved ones for the elderly.

    I also think that our mummy level politicians need to go the shuffle board court. Both parties.
    Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 04-18-2023 at 11:03 AM.
    Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age

  5. #95
    Member ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    That info from Claude is a realistic objective for average folks preparing for bell curve problems. I'd reduce that accuracy standard to a single sheet of (portrait) paper. (I actually prefer his/Gila's 5x5 for an objective marksmanship standard.)

    Doesn't replace the pursuit of excellence, but is realistic.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  6. #96

    Repass one shot evaluation

    While I again refer back to Werner’s “retired LAPD qual” of 10 rounds on a 7 yd. B27 -70% to pass, entire target counts, there’s a qual from Frank Repass not so long ago.
    5 yards, “A zone”, from a ready, single round; there’s a chart with graduated times, but basically if one can get the hit in about 1.5 seconds, that is 100%. YMMV.
    The previous mentions of awareness/avoidance, legal knowledge, safe manipulations, movement and storage should be heeded.
    As a side note, I drove over to the NRA show this weekend and went through some exhibits. My observations were that a) the demographic is heavily senior white males and b) the various company representatives, women and children had much safer handling habits than the older men, generally speaking. It might be sn extension of the American male mindset: I’m a man so I “automagically” know how to do stuff…

  7. #97
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    More from Mr. Werner

    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #98
    " I worry about older folks (I am),"

    I don't, but I'm only 81.

  9. #99
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    Claude:
    As long as a person can consistently (95% of one shot presentations) hit a target the size of two sheets of paper, stacked in landscape orientation, at four yards, they have the requisite level of marksmanship skill to dominate 99% of personal protection shooting incidents by non-sworn personnel.
    He teaches a great snubby class, BTW. JLW has a great podcast with John Holschen on requisite abilities. John stresses an interesting aspect of skill which is when to stop shooting. Found that this is teachable. He taught high end competitors and found their split times increased but appropriate hits increased significantly. Holschen is good teacher, did classes with him.
    Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    Claude:

    He teaches a great snubby class, BTW. JLW has a great podcast with John Holschen on requisite abilities. John stresses an interesting aspect of skill which is when to stop shooting. Found that this is teachable. He taught high end competitors and found their split times increased but appropriate hits increased significantly. Holschen is good teacher, did classes with him.
    I have not had the pleasure of attending his snubby class, but have been on his Patreon program and believe it’s good stuff for me. He has in the mini auto program a par of 3 seconds. He does not specify a time with the 4 yard accuracy standard. @SLG has on the pistol training site a post on his “Cold Heat”: concealed draw to a B8 at 5 yards, par of 2 seconds, COLD. That is, no warm up, step onto the range and engage. First time I tried it, effed it up with a fouled draw. A little concealed dry practice over a couple of days and I’m in the zone. I’m now working on multiple hits within the time frame. I’m sure there are folks here that can do this routinely.
    My point is that I feel a par or passing time is necessary. Can one deliver a shot to a specified target from concealment, cold, every time? JMO, but a hit to a vital area in 3 or maybe 4 seconds should be a “standard” to confirm or strive for.
    Other skills, like stopping, judgement, etc. are valid also.

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