Smith 19-4 With Rust Issues

[Spartan1980]

For damage that light I'd take Oxpho Blue and steel wool to it. With a few coats it'll look blue and it'll get rid of the rust and not look so obviously "repaired". I redid the receiver on an old Browning shotgun and it looked pretty decent. That gun had a fair amount of original bluing on it which is still there. It won't give you a completely refinished look or totally hide the rusted area but it'll restore the area somewhat while still showing the holster wear. Oxpho Blue is good stuff and has its own "quality" that's different from most other cold blue solutions.

It all depends on what you hand to your son when that day comes. I'd personally keep the "character" on it for him vs. refinishing which will erase it. Either way is OK, it's all in what you want it to represent.

[Zeke38]

I agree with Spartan on Oxypho and 0000 steel wool. Take your time and rub the steel wool in the direction of rear of rust to muzzle end of barrel. Oxypho is a Brownell's proprietary chemical and it does a good job. Just cleaned up a similar looking 19-4 that sold at a gunshow for a good price.

[BobM]

You might check at Country Attic and see if they still know someone in the area doing bluing.

[Malamute]

You might check at Country Attic and see if they still know someone in the area doing bluing.

Id be certain they actually know what they're doing before having someone blue it. A poor to average blue job will significantly and permanently degrade the value far more than the lost patches of blue, if indeed they are even lost. Lots of people know how to blue, not very many know how to polish and do it so you cant tell its been done. Its not a given that the edges and lettering show its been blued, its just the most common result of average grade gunsmiths doing it. Once screwed up its never going to be like it was. Just saying, getting a fine pistol blued is not to be taken lightly, and turned over to be done by anyone mechanically capable, but possibly not able to do it justice. The "I been doing it for 30 years" thing doesnt mean they do it truly well.

This is part of my acceptance of cold blue. Its not as durable as hot bluing, but doesnt affect the metal like a poorly done buff and polish job. It may need to be touched up now and then, but the integrity of the gun is intact and can be hot blued at any point later if it desired. Theres a few people Ive known that could do a good job polishing to blue, two are now gone.

If cost is a factor in getting it blued correctly, you might look into cold rust bluing, you can do it yourself, but its time consuming. The end result is at least as durable as a hot blue. You can hand polish it so it doesnt ruin the lettering and edges.

Worse come to worse, if for some reason I HAD to blue something with only mild to moderate issues and nobody really good was available or out of my budget to do it, Id hand polish the offending areas and get someone to blue it without polishing/buffing it. I had an old school gunsmith blue a rifle bolt once that had about half the blue missing. I asked what the price was to blue it without polishing it, he said "But you have to polish it and buff all the old blue off to blue it". Um, no, not necessarily. I told him id pay him the same money if it looked ok or not, so he did it. It looked fine. He was a bit surprised and said hed have never believed it. I learned that trick from a really good gunsmith that just cleaned up areas he had worked on (like cut and crown a Ruger SA barrel and re-silver solder the front sight back on) and threw them in the blue tank, they came out fine so long as the hand polish on the worked on area matched the rest of the gun. I've seen him do it a number of times, I couldnt tell the difference once done. The down side is unless you know the gunsmith its probably unlikely they will agree to blue something without buffing/ruining it since thats how theyve always done it.

All in all, unless you are willing to pay a true expert level gunsmith or send it back for a factory refinish, all of which is somewhat pricey, getting guns blued is frustrating and leads to ulcers. I absolutely HATE it when someone screws up one of my guns. Its happened more than once. It makes me really unhappy to pay money to make my gun worth less and permanently disfigure it.

So, coming back around...Cold blue...not altogether a bad option for touch up. If its going to be a range gun and plinker you may never know the difference.

[iWander]

You might check at Country Attic and see if they still know someone in the area doing bluing.

Good idea Bob! Thanks. I'll call them this week... beats having to ship it assuming the quality is the same.

[Dave T]

Malamute,

I'm on your side. Preserve and protect but don't re-finish. That 19 earned it's stripes, don't rip them off.

Dave

[BobM]

I agree with Malamute on finding someone who really knows what he’s doing. There used to be a guy with a pretty good reputation who’s name I cannot remember but that shop would know if he’s still around

[mtnbkr]

The suggestion by @Malamute to use 0000 steel wool and oil is exactly what I would do. I've used that method many times in the past and often it's plenty on its own. A little *quality* cold blue can often cover up any minor issues after the steel wool treatment, but I'd be inclined to leave it as is after removing the rust. A quality hot blue or other refinishing would return it to "like new" condition, but I wouldn't do that to any gun with family provenance. The flaws tell the story in my view.

Chris

[TGS]

A quality hot blue or other refinishing would return it to "like new" condition, but I wouldn't do that to any gun with family provenance. The flaws tell the story in my view.

That'd make sense if the flaws were hatch marks in the barrel for however many bandits he dispatched, or excessive holster wear from shooting a lot of PPC matches.

The flaws of this gun tell a story of neglect, nothing more.

I guess I'm in the minority here. Not all wear is "good wear". Just because a gun was neglected doesn't give it character.

____________________________

As for the part about leaving the metal untouched after removing the rust and uncoated metal vs cold blue:

Regardless of that unpopular opinion about character, if preservation is the game them cold blue is 100% not the answer in any objective way, since cold blue makes the metal more susceptible to rust than just leaving polished steel in the white. Cold blue is a misnomer, since it is not bluing at all. It is a metal stain that etches the metals surface, and that etching actually encourages the steel to rust. It is not a corrosion inhibitor. This has been shown over, and over, and over in simple experiments, regardless of however many shade tree gunsmiths swear by the stuff who don't want to pay a professional for a real firearms finish. Polished in the white with a corrosion inhibitor such as eezox will conserve the metal dramatically better than cold blue.

[Malamute]

That'd make sense if the flaws were hatch marks in the barrel for however many bandits he dispatched, or excessive holster wear from shooting a lot of PPC matches.

The flaws of this gun tell a story of neglect, nothing more.

I guess I'm in the minority here. Not all wear is "good wear". Just because a gun was neglected doesn't give it character.

____________________________

As for the part about leaving the metal untouched after removing the rust and uncoated metal vs cold blue:

Regardless of that unpopular opinion about character, if preservation is the game them cold blue is 100% not the answer in any objective way, since cold blue makes the metal more susceptible to rust than just leaving polished steel in the white. Cold blue is a misnomer, since it is not bluing at all. It is a metal stain that etches the metals surface, and that etching actually encourages the steel to rust. It is not a corrosion inhibitor. This has been shown over, and over, and over in simple experiments, regardless of however many shade tree gunsmiths swear by the stuff who don't want to pay a professional for a real firearms finish. Polished in the white with a corrosion inhibitor such as eezox will conserve the metal dramatically better than cold blue.

I agree with most of your points, cold blue doesnt really protect much, it just makes it look better. One of my points in this instance was if its basically a range and plinking gun, it may not matter much if it provides protection so long as the gun was cared for reasonably well. The other major point is it seems common in the gun world that if theres any blue wear, many feel compelled to get it refinished, almost a compulsion, like it HAS to be done. The next part of that is most average gunsmiths dont do a very good job polishing, we all have seen many examples of "reblued guns" and know the signs of it having been done. Its pretty much accepted that thats just how it is when a gun is reblued. Its not though, its the sign of a half-assed job by a mediocre refinisher. I completely agree that when done by a true pro, its undetectable, and doesnt degrade the guns value monetarily or visually. Its also expensive.

It absolutely does not HAVE to be refinished, the gun still functions fine Im sure. What the value of the re-done gun is to the owner is a question they have to answer. Cold blue is nowhere near the quality finish a good hot or cold rust blue is, but its also vastly less expensive and you arent risking messing up the gun like a mediocre re-blue often does. Once screwed up by one of these operators, its forever screwed up unless subjected to an expensive restoration. Again, cost vs perceived monetary/personal value is the question. I answered that for myself many years ago. First time I had John L do something on my 45 Blackhawk, he blued it. It was gorgeous. Some time later I decided to remove all the extraneous markings Ruger stamped on the barrel, flat topped the frame, and made some one piece rosewood grips, which when done for best fit, require working them down when in place on the grip frame, which of course means youre taking the blue off to get the near perfect fit (most grips fit like shit, and are one of my pet peeves). All of this messed up the beautiful blue, I cold blued all the places i worked on and continued to carry it in the hills and mountains for 30 years, with no particular care of if it looked really pretty, but also with no particular real issues with rust, despite rain, snow, sleeping with it under my pillow in camp, hot/cold cycles, condensation, whatever. Yes, it looks pretty funky, but I never bothered to try to keep up the cold blue by re-doing it, I simply dont care.

I had a 1903 Springfield rebarreled by a gunsmith I knew (35 Whelen, yeah-boy!). He was supposed to get his blueing stuff set up at some time period and blue it himself but didnt. Since he was behind his intended time frame, and without asking me, he sent it to a well known commercial re-bluer. Its a deep black-blue, and its VERY overpolished. Its a shit job, and its forever going to be a shit job, on dads 1903. It will never be like it was. Yes, Id prefer it be cold blued or not blued at all compared to what I ended up with. It absolutely pisses me off very time I handle it, instead of bringing satisfaction and enjoyment. Ive seen many such guns screwed up by crappy refinishing work. This is part of my reluctance to just unreservedly endorse getting guns re-blued. I believe theres vastly more crappy gun refinishers than truly good and capable ones, finding them can unfortunately be a frustrating and disheartening experience. Getting somebody elses opinion of a refinish job is also fraught with difficulties, as probably most people dont know the difference between actual good work and just overbuffing and making it all black again.

There are very definitely worse things than having a gun with less than perfect blueing.

Edit: I bought a 1926 3rd model hand ejector 44 spl some years ago. It had long family history. Someone decided it deserved to be refinished. The polish job wasnt as bad as some, only moderately overdone, but the cylinder ended up purple-ish. The family was so disappointed in the poor result they ended up selling it so they didnt have to be reminded of the shit result they got in trying to fix up the old family heirloom.