My 38 Super Comp Open gun is overwhelming my MSA Sordin headset. Multiple fast shots often cause the MSA headset to shutdown. I am wearing custom fit amplified plugs under my headset, but need something that will provide more noise reduction for practice and matches.
Suggestions?
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
@GJM
Peltor ProTac or Tactical Pro with gel cups.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I have two broken Peltor headsets hanging around here and I am reluctant to spend $500 on replacements if there is a better option.Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
How about a Surplus Nacre Quietpro?
That has the best noise cancellation of anything I’ve tried.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Have you tried shooting with the headset turned off and the amplified plugs turned up? Some of the local guys do that here.
Or get some 37 nrr noise reduction regular muffs? I don't think any noise canceling electronics are fast enough for gunshots (may be wrong) and that the electronics are just to boost the non-gunshot sounds.
I didn't know they made over the ear muffs with NRR that high.
The Peltor Com-Tacs do cut off noises before the sound gets to a harmfull level: Environmental Listening is a means of allowing safe audio sounds to bypass the individual hearing protection while still protecting against harmful noises. This is accomplished with a proprietary digital audio circuit integrated into the headset. A microphone receives the sounds outside the headset and transmits them to a speaker inside the headset. The Level-Dependent digital audio circuit senses noise levels above the desired threshhold and compresses them to a safe decibel level or amplifies weak sounds to an audible level.
I guess it;s due to the fact that electricity travels faster than sound.
I can tell you from experience wearing the first generation of NSA noise cancelling headphones and then Peltor's later on, the Peltors pretty much perform as advertised. With the first gen on an indoor range, conversations would be cut off for the duration of shots leading to something like 'W...t..y...s....t...a....k...l. With the Peltors conversations are understandable.
I wear hearing aides that have an 85 db cutoff in their circuitry, but they don't seal the ear canal enough to offer protection (I believe) I wear them under my turned off Peltors when I shoot at a match. I don't like to wear them turned on under the Peltors with the Peltors turned on, just in case.
Otherwise I use foamies under the turned on Peltors - I can hear the ProTac clipped to my belt with that setup.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
Ops-Core AMP with NFMI plugs are what I use now, and I think they are absolute money. Haven't had any noticeable issues with audio cutting out.
For background, I started out simply using Shure IEMs with the triple flange as passive hearing protection on the pistol range. I then upgraded to MSA Sordin Supreme-Xs with SureFire plugs using Shure olives, before trying out the Safariland Liberator HPs with the SureFires for a bit, before finally settling on the AMPs with NFMI plugs with Comply Canal Tips.
I think that the noise suppression is absolutely stellar with the AMPs/NFMI plug combination, with excellent situational awareness and sound reproduction. In terms of situational awareness, if bare actives muffs are a 100, active muffs paired with normal foamies are a 20, active muffs paired with the SureFires with the filter caps open are a 50, and the AMPs/NFMI are probably a 98. In terms of sound suppression, the AMPs/NFMI plug combination is also excellent, with me feeling just fine standing next to a guy running a 10.3" and a brake while everyone else with just muffs definitely were wincing and doubling up usually afterwards.
Peltor has their TEP-300/ComTac VII combo that operates the same way, though even pricier than the Ops-Core AMP, albeit with arguably better capabilities (the TEP-300s can act as amplified plugs on their own, while the Ops-Core NFMI plugs are strictly passive without the AMP; they also interface with the SCU-300 wireless PTT, but that's not very useful in just range use).
The ComTac VI is a cheaper potential option, as it has an earplug mode specifically for use with passive plugs, where the audio is boosted to try to compensate for the use of said plugs.
Unfortunately, these are all communication headsets, so will be substantially pricier than most hearing protection options.
Hi Dan, the compression is referring to the reproduced sounds from the microphone going to the speaker and doesn't refer to the actual physical noise reduction inherent in the muff.
So if the muff reduces 20dB and the electronic circuit adds back some noise... but the amount of extra noise added is compressed to prevent pumping more than 82dB THROUGH THE SPEAKER... that's what they're talking about.
You still get sound bypass and are still dependent on the construction of the muff as the mainstay of SOUND REDUCTION.
3M website:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...l-bulletin.pdf
Which includes this:
Electronic Level-Dependent Hearing Protectors
These HPDs use electronic technology to maintain, and in some cases enhance, hearing ability when sound levels are low. They are often referred to as “active” hearing protectors. Environmental microphones (also referred to as tactical, surround, or situational-awareness microphones) on the device pick up the low-level (non-hazardous) sounds in the area around the wearer and reproduce them inside the hearing protector. Typically the wearer can control the loudness using a volume control on the device. The amount of sound that is electronically reproduced inside the HPD decreases proportionally as the sound level outside the device increases. Electronic compression is used to limit the level of the reproduced sound inside the headset to non-hazardous levels.
Since the maximum attenuation provided (in the absence of electronic reproduction) is based on the physical properties of the earmuff cups or earplugs that create the acoustic seal around the ear or in the ear, these devices provide protection against both impulse and continuous noises in the same way as traditional HPDs. The big difference is the ability of electronic level-dependent HPDs to allow the wearer to hear more effectively during periods of low noise without the need to remove the device.
All 3MTM PELTORTM electronic level-dependent hearing protectors limit the sound reproduced from the environmental microphones to 82 dB SPL. In the absence of the reproduced signal [even if the active circuitry is powered off], some sound will continue to be transmitted into the ear since the barrier created by the earmuff cups or earplugs themselves has the same limitations as does a traditional HPD. In other words, even electronic level-dependent hearing protectors eventually depend on the non- electronic components to help protect the wearer’s hearing.
There are advertisements for 37 NRR muffs out there, but it could be BS marketing. I can't validate or vouch for the products.
For the specific use at hand, let's assume there are 33-34 NRR muffs out there and you don't care about the communication standpoint.
Here is the ComTac info off their insert:
The ComTac has NRR 20... regardless of active circuitry (for other communication) the NRR for gunshots will be 20... so getting non-electronic NRR 33 muffs might be better for shooting sports where you don't have to hear anything but the buzzer.
That's my best understanding and assumption... that the active electronics don't reduce the NRR... all the tech is in the reproduction of sound for communication and warfighting... I could be wrong. There's some really cool stuff in active noise cancellation so I would love to learn and would totally pony up for more expensive tech if it reduced sound better. It was my understanding that the current available muffs were mainly based around enhancing communication and situational sound rather than augmenting the NRR.
EDIT: I also just looked up and saw that the MSA Sordins that @GJM are using have an NRR of 18-23. So it's still my recommendation to get some NRR 33+ muffs and screw the electronics. Turn up the amplification of the plugs inside to hear the beep and reduce the overall sound being transmitted.
Last edited by JCN; 04-03-2023 at 04:03 AM.
@Dan Lehr part of my context comes from buying a sound meter fast enough to detect gunshots.
It’s apparently not a small feat to find something that can even record the level of something that fast, much less process and counter cancel it.
To the point where a sound meter alone capable of it costs >$1500 and less expensive than that doesn’t have the ability at least when I purchased my LXT from Larsen Davis a few years back.
So if tech has improved to that point, I would be delighted. If there were electronics that could actively reduce NRR of gunshot speed impulses, that would be fantastic. So far, AFAIK you’re still dependent on the physical characteristics of the muff for NRR and the electronics are for adding back sounds for clarity and communication.
For sports and practice I’m just looking to preserve my hearing so I use high NRR combinations when using firearms that are over 160 dB.
I initially bought the sound meter so I could measure the sound reduction in the car so I could see if it would be hearing safe for my kid to be in the RV without muffs at what distance.
H/L Impact Pro's are 30 NRR, less than $100. I bought at set in 2013 and these were my go to whenever I was indoors, or next to the guy shooting something really noisy.
https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight...007BGSI5U?th=1
The muffs are plain vinyl, so got hot. If I bought them again I'd get a set of Noisefighter gel cups. Maybe a head wrap.
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