Wound Trauma Incapacitation With 12 Gauge Buckshot

[JCN]

While your BG is dealing with that fastball to the sternum, aim higher and execute a failure drill. These discussions always seem as though people think one round has to, or will do, the job every single time. Regardless of caliber, if you're not happy with the result, shot the BG again.

No doubt!

[TCinVA]

The question still remains, by how much?

That cannot be neatly quantified.

Assuming Close Range, If you shot 2 rounds of something like 77 grain TMK, would the full load of 12 gauge 00/#1 still produce more damage in 1?

The 77 grain produces a significant TSC and PCC.

The PCC created by 8-15 pellets of buckshot is going to be significantly larger than the PCC created by a couple of 5.56 rounds because of sheer numbers.

The TSC created by either inside flesh can't be neatly quantified in a way that allows comparison.

There is a pretty wide body of observational data on how bad guys react to being shot with pistols, rifles, and shotguns to give some reliable indications on how effective the various options are at achieving our intended purposes in self defense. I'd recommend reading this thread's 4th page thoroughly and watching all the video posted in it:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1308653

A shotgun loaded with an intelligently selected buckshot load has proven to be the most effective implement we have for instantaneously stopping the violent actions of a criminal threat.

A shotgun loaded with slugs is no slouch either. Slugs do not have the bonuses of multiple projectile impact, but getting hit by a .71" wide ounce of lead going 1,300-1,600 FPS will create a huge PCC and due to the sheer size of the projectile might give you some TSC-tearing benefit. But generally we just rely on the big damn hole it punches in anatomy...which lets blood out, air in, and tends to arrest the attention of the individual who earned it.

[Velo Dog]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ense-Long-Guns

[Nephrology]

Honestly I don't think the nitty-gritty matters as much as I used to think it does.

A 12ga cartridge of any kind designed to kill mammals will cause devastating injuries inside of its effective range.

Chest and abdomen are full of large blood bearing organs and vessels. If you hit them, rapid exsanguination will ensue. The specifics may vary based on random chance, but would not likely matter to me in trauma bay, if they make it that far to begin with

[HCM]

Closest thing I could find to an answer was the “Home Defense Longuns.” In which Dr. Roberts reiterates a full load of 12 Gauge Buckshot does more close-range damage than any loading in 5.56x45mm.

The question still remains, by how much? Assuming Close Range, If you shot 2 rounds of something like 77 grain TMK, would the full load of 12 gauge 00/#1 still produce more damage in 1?

Does it matter ?

If you miss (yes you can miss with a shotgun) or your shot placement as bad, or you’re too slow, it doesn’t matter how Magic your magic bullets are.

A better question - when was the last time you trained or practiced with your shotgun?

[Trooper224]

While your BG is dealing with that fastball to the sternum, aim higher and execute a failure drill. These discussions always seem as though people think one round has to, or will do, the job every single time. Regardless of caliber, if you're not happy with the result, shot the BG again.

Most don't wear armor on their face. Just sayin'.

[vcdgrips]

To build off of HCM-

How does the load in the shotgun you are practicing with pattern?

While Federal Flight Control 8 pellet buck will typically hold 8 inches or better @ 20 yrds thru many non choked shotguns, do you need that if your longest shot inside your house is 7 yards such a more commonly available load will do just fine...after you have patterned it to confirm.

To quote Pat Rogers (RIP) [and others I am sure] -Mission drives the gear.

[Choc]

That cannot be neatly quantified.



The 77 grain produces a significant TSC and PCC.

The PCC created by 8-15 pellets of buckshot is going to be significantly larger than the PCC created by a couple of 5.56 rounds because of sheer numbers.

The TSC created by either inside flesh can't be neatly quantified in a way that allows comparison.

There is a pretty wide body of observational data on how bad guys react to being shot with pistols, rifles, and shotguns to give some reliable indications on how effective the various options are at achieving our intended purposes in self defense. I'd recommend reading this thread's 4th page thoroughly and watching all the video posted in it:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1308653

A shotgun loaded with an intelligently selected buckshot load has proven to be the most effective implement we have for instantaneously stopping the violent actions of a criminal threat.

A shotgun loaded with slugs is no slouch either. Slugs do not have the bonuses of multiple projectile impact, but getting hit by a .71" wide ounce of lead going 1,300-1,600 FPS will create a huge PCC and due to the sheer size of the projectile might give you some TSC-tearing benefit. But generally we just rely on the big damn hole it punches in anatomy...which lets blood out, air in, and tends to arrest the attention of the individual who earned it.

I know it can’t be Neatly quantified, but couldn’t it be roughly quantified?

Perhaps Dr. Roberts himself could settle this @DocGKR