In terms of self protection, when is a modern shotgun the best option for civilian/LE and why?
In terms of self protection, when is a modern shotgun the best option for civilian/LE and why?
Are you loyal to the constitution or the “institution”?
In general terms here is my take for the average trained person:
In situations where the expected adversary is unarmored, three or less in number, (assuming at least 5 round capacity) and the most likely engagement distance is within 3 - 12 yards.
Looking forward to reading what others post.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
I like your parameters, with the addition of team based deployment for LE. I don't think the shotgun is the best option for LE unless you're on a team, as the situations can change too quickly which gets you outside of the stated parameters pretty quick.Originally Posted by Dan Lehr
Real world examples: 1) two man patrol car, one rifle/one shotgun, 2) warrant team, 3) vehicle checkpoint security for sensitive areas/major events, one dude manning a shotgun with hardened penetrators.
In the capacity of private citizens is a little different, since the intended use is likely to remain inside said parameters. The guide carrying a shotgun for bear protection in Alaska isn't likely to have the situation change to fighting off multiple dudes in body armor, and the law-abiding homeowner not involved in gangs who is pulling out his shotgun in response to a home invasion isn't likely to face 3+ dudes in armor and then go on a chase through the neighborhood afterwards. You're not likely to transition from shooting someone in home defense to clearing an active shooter scene in a school with the chance of low probability shots, shooting in a crowded venue, and down long hallways exceeding the effective range of a shotgun, either.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
IMO, shotguns are generally perfect for close quarters/ home defense. Also, unlike handguns, one serving per bad guy will generally suffice. So a shotgun that holds 5-6 rounds should be plenty and especially if reloads are readily attached to shotgun.
I am no professional, but I have hung out with a few professional shotgunners.
In the private citizen context I believe the gun is best used as a barricade weapon. By barricade weapon, I mean my intended use is to move to a position of advantage, point the gun at the door, and wait my turn (or better yet, wait for them to decide there are better places to be). I choose a shotgun for that role because it’s about as close to a ballistic off switch as we have available. I have a lot of confidence in the ballistics of well-placed 00 buckshot at 5 yards.
Because I use a semi-auto, the only manipulation I have to do is to run the charging handle once I retrieve the gun - and I practice grabbing the gun and running the charging handle every time the gun gets taken out and shot. Knowing what I now know, I would want to see a regular training routine for a person who chooses to use a pump action gun. I do not believe that pump action shotguns are as user-friendly as they’re made out to be, even if most people intuitively understand how to fire them.
If my home defense plan required serious movement on my part, my choice would likely be a pistol due to my own proficiency and training limitations (the extremely little formal training I have for moving inside a structure involved a pistol). Additionally, the fact that a pistol can reasonably be used one handed is a major selling point to me for that role.
I like what Dan Lehr and TGS said.
I worked for a big-city PD, for 33+ years, mostly night-shift patrol, and was qual’ed with personally-owned shotguns just about the entire time.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
When is a shotgun the best option for modern LE?
Anytime you have a non-hostage holding, armed, suspect inside of 15y (assuming 00 buck).
When is a shotgun the best option for a civilian?
Anytime you have a non-hostage holding, armed, suspect, inside of 15y (assuming 00 buck).
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Swap to slugs and the ranges extend and hostage shots can be made, but I wouldn't extend the window for the average person running slugs to be out past about 35y.
As much interest as there was in the 1301 I thought there would be more replies...
Peoples interests seem to be more about modifications to the hardware than actual use case deployment of the hardware...
Are you loyal to the constitution or the “institution”?
I don't see that. Rather, it's a short discussion because there seems to be a general consensus on the capabilities and limitations of the blunderbuss, and in what situations it's most effective.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Pretty much this. There isn’t a scientific formula for when one type of firearm is better than another, it’s more of a list of needs and a list of capabilities that you have to compare. Shotguns rock at gunfights against unarmored opponents at typical pistol distances with buckshot and at shutting down vehicles with hardened/deep penetrator slugs. They’re also pretty good at ballistically breaching locked doors. Killing vehicles isn’t really something the typical private citizen needs to be worried about but, depending on where you live, you can replace that with killing large, dangerous animals. Same with with ballistic breaching. Most bad guys aren’t wearing body armor but it’s not unheard of. A shotgun would probably serve the typical private citizen well. An LEO might be better served with a different weapon such as a rifle because some situations an LEO might find themselves in might require things that shotguns aren’t good at. I wouldn’t want to respond to an active shooter at a school or commercial property with a shotgun if a rifle is available due to the increased possibility of a suspect wearing body armor, the extended distances that might be present and the number of victims running around.
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