ARMY RIFLE QUALS IMPROVE SCORE

[VT1032]

You have to have your mags staged on your body in a way you can easily access them, and in different positions (prone, kneeling, standing). Invest in good pouches.

This part got a lot more people than I thought it would. I ran a lot of ranges as I was on my way out of the guard last year. Every time I'd have the guy doing the range brief tell them to keep the mags on their person and not try to stage them on the barricade. I can't tell you how many people I saw fail because they knocked a mag behind a barricade. A lot of soldiers had a wake-up call as to their kit placement too. Saw a lot of stupid vest setups getting switched around by no-gos...

[Yute]

Every time I'd have the guy doing the range brief tell them to keep the mags on their person and not try to stage them on the barricade. I can't tell you how many people I saw fail because they knocked a mag behind a barricade.

Technically per the TC Staging or pre-positioning magazines off body is not authorized, but it happens all the time. Also a good way to get rocks/dirt/debris into the magazine, which is probably the 2nd most common cause of malfunctions. Most common cause is probably failure to properly seat the magazine.

I vastly prefer Gen 3 PMAGs over the Tan EPR magazines for M855a1 ammunition; for some reason our Tan mags seem more prone to causing malfunctions even though they are relatively new.

Another tip is if you miss a shot, do not reengage the target you missed unless you are sure you can hit it. If you miss your second shot (or third...) you're essentially down 2 (or 3) hits instead of just the one.

Also make sure your ACH is firmly in place (ie cinch it down hard) so it doesn't tip into your eyes when going prone.

I actually really like the new qual, though it doesn't shake a stick to the Marine Corps qual which is a multi day event. Only thing it doesn't really work is NSR/very close quarter engagements. If I were to add something additional it would be a NSR timed event, e.g. 7 yard target with 5 rounds followed by a speed reload and another 5 rounds. Something to make Pat happy.

[JRB]

Lots of very sound advice in this thread already! Especially regarding vest & gear setup which seems to be an afterthought all over the Army, but especially in support units/fobbitland/logistics dweebville where I find myself now.
I've lost count of the number of joes I see just stuffing magazines into their cargo pockets. Embarrassing.

On zeroing: Virtually all of the irons I've seen on fielded M4's these days are the Matech 600M BUIS. There's a lot of zeroing errors I see perpetuated with this sight even by NCO's who are allegedly Master Gunners and similar. I am fairly sure that some of these errors exacerbate the problems folks have with irons in general.
The Matech rear sight has a BDC built into it, but the effectiveness of those distance changes depend on how the weapon is zeroed. For a 14.5in M4, it should be zeroed at 25M on the 300M setting. For an M16A4 or other 20in flattop rifle, it should be zeroed on the '-' position between the 200M and 300M settings. One can then either set it to 300M knowing a slight hold-under is best for the 150's and 200's, or adjust it to the 100, and know to hold a little high on the 250's and 300's. Generally I advocate that Soldiers keep it on the 300M setting and hold under. I have seen generally better results when Soldiers can see the whole target and use the sight picture accordingly, instead of trying to get a solid sight picture just above or in the higher portions of those green ivans. This is particularly crucial on those ranges that @Yute mentioned where the green ivans blend in with the native foliage.
I have seen a TON of NCO's tell Soldiers to zero their M4's on the '-' position intended for the 20in rifles, and while it's not a major difference I can't help but believe that the error does increase the miss rates for the 250's and 300's on the qual.
Similarly, I've seen NCO's tell Soldiers they're 'zeroed' when half of their 'zeroed' group is at an edge of the silhouette. A Soldier should only use the silhouette of the zero target for their sight picture. The zero is the ~4cm circle at the center of that silhouette, and until a group is shot that keeps all rounds inside that circle (as best the Soldier can, anyway) I do not consider them zeroed.
The zeroing range is also where the fundamentals should be reviewed and reinforced. Too many units seem to do the PMI/instruction portion between the zero and the qual range so Soldiers aren't sitting in bleachers at the qual range looking bored when O5-O6 types drive by. That's fine, but PMI & fundamentals should be getting done at the zero range.


I'll happily re-emphasize the necessity of using the barricade properly, and leaning your whole weight into it as best you can to stabilize the rifle. Before the firing iteration begins, but after you've grounded your weapon, go up to the barricade and check its height vs your various shooting positions so you know exactly which notch to go into for each shooting position. While there's a TM standard for those barricades, many Army ranges have differing ground near the barricade that can affect which notch of the barricade is best for you. So check it at that range every time so you're not wasting time changing positions on the clock.

Similarly, before you even walk onto the range, make sure your buttstock length and sling etc are all set up perfectly for your preferred shooting position and posture. I have watched Soldiers fail to shoot at targets because they were fiddling with the buttstock or the sling during the qual.

Another thing, for lefties and for left-eyed-right-handed weirdos like me, is a Norgon ambidextrous mag release can significantly speed up magazine changes: https://www.norgon.com/
The Norgon's got an NSN and is still listed on the Authorized Accessories List (AAL) in the M4's -10 TM last I checked. KAC also makes an excellent drop-in ambi release but I can't remember if it's on the AAL or not. Either one installs easily in less than 3 minutes and is easily reversed back to the original issued parts. But the removal of the magazine release is technically a -20 level (maintainer, 91F DMOS, or armorer) task so sometimes people get a case of the ass over that.

Despite being on the AAL, one must obtain permission from the unit Commander (and sometimes the Armorer too depending on SOP) in order to install it on an issued weapon. I fought this problem for years with non-ambi selectors on early M4's and M16's that plagued the arms rooms of my early career. Some Commanders and Armorers are cool with things like this, others are very much not.

That all said, I've gotten so used to running non-ambi GI parts on AR's that my mag changes are only somewhat slowed, because keep my left hand on the pistol grip, use my left index knuckle to flick the selector to safe, then use my right hand to remove the magazine, pushing the release with my thumb. Then I can either toss the mag or pouch it, then grab my next mag and execute the reload.

That's not nearly as fast as thumbing a selector, mag release with PG index finger, while off hand does nothing but grab&smack a magazine into the weapon and hit the bolt release. But there's enough time at the expected mag change point to do it either way. I just prefer to get it done ASAP and use the extra time to reposition on the barricade and start trying to control breathing/heart rate.

But yeah, otherwise a good carbine class and taking the time to really set up and think about your 'kit' and run it in dry fire, practice mag changes, etc will make a big difference in your total performance on the qual.

[Yute]

On zeroing: Virtually all of the irons I've seen on fielded M4's these days are the Matech 600M BUIS.

I've been always a little suspect about the Matech sight. I can never get as good a sight picture with the Matech as I could with the M16a2; not sure if it's the aperture or the sight radius that does me in. Not to mention the fact the elevation knob can be bumped far too easily.

One thing I've noticed with the new zero target, is that Soldiers are being told to aim POA/POI in the center of the target, when in fact POI should be 1.5 MOA low from the POA. Seen this mistake even being taught at initial military training qualifications.

[Suvorov]

Has the pop up qualification changed since the 40 round qualification that was being used when I popped smoke in ‘06?

Not really much to add as there is ton’s off good info on “gaming the qual” but really other than the things that can make it go smoother it really comes down to basic rifle marksmanship and a good zero.

Right after 9-11-01 we had a PA assigned to our BN. He joined up out of sense of patriotism, a Chinese born American and a good man. He had never even fired a gun before joining the Guard and it showed. Being the resident Gun nut he asked for advice and I suggested some training classes and to purchase as close to our issued guns as possible. He bought a Beretta 92 and got access to an AR15 (this being Kalifornia not quite sure how it did it back then) but within a couple years he was qualifying as Expert!

Unfortunately as an Officer you don’t usually wear your marksmanship badges and no one in the rating system seems to care if you can’t shoot for shit. But that said - your troops do take note.

[HCM]

Has the pop up qualification changed since the 40 round qualification that was being used when I popped smoke in ‘06?

Not really much to add as there is ton’s off good info on “gaming the qual” but really other than the things that can make it go smoother it really comes down to basic rifle marksmanship and a good zero.

Right after 9-11-01 we had a PA assigned to our BN. He joined up out of sense of patriotism, a Chinese born American and a good man. He had never even fired a gun before joining the Guard and it showed. Being the resident Gun nut he asked for advice and I suggested some training classes and to purchase as close to our issued guns as possible. He bought a Beretta 92 and got access to an AR15 (this being Kalifornia not quite sure how it did it back then) but within a couple years he was qualifying as Expert!

Unfortunately as an Officer you don’t usually wear your marksmanship badges and no one in the rating system seems to care if you can’t shoot for shit. But that said - your troops do take note.

Yes - there is a new rifle qual -still 40 rounds on pop ups at 50-300 but it has supported standing and kneeling firing (VTAC Barricade) reloads and position changes on the clock and no alibis. Started in 2019 ?

Details - https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/everyth...fication-test/

[Wake27]

I haven’t had time to write a longer post but it helps to know where he struggled, if possible. A few notes below.

1. There’s not many good ways to get around knowing hold unders and overs with irons or a red dot. Doubtful that he grouped at each range and could see where the corresponding POI is. I still don’t even really know most of the holds for a 14.5 w/ 855A1 except for the 50m.

2. I haven’t seen proof of this but I have a reasonably trustworthy source that’s said if you shoot the targets before they’re fully erect, they won’t register the hit. This can often be seen in misses at the shorter range targets, apparently.

3. Most assaulter programs of instruction (i.e. carbine course from a non-sniper) will be all about enveloping the gun and barricade with your body to build support and minimize recoil. At a recent mid-range course I took, the assaulter/sniper/PRS shooter advocated much less contact with the gun when supported, since the body is always moving and the barricade will likely not. The implied task is that the gun is supported adequately but even then, we used some minimal structures and removed a lot of the bodily contact I was used to and hit much smaller targets at further distances with greater repeatability than I ever have before. I’m curious to try this on the next pop-up range.

4. To go along with the above - positioning. From previous injuries, I have a relatively impressive lack of mobility so I can often shoot standing better than kneeling. Even when I was younger, most kneeling positions would have something inside my body feeling like it was about to explode. The longer I have to hold it, the more I’m constantly shifting due to discomfort. This goes back to the PRS method of barricade support. The less of my body is touching the gun, the less my screaming muscles and ligaments will influence the POI.

I think the rest has been covered. I don’t remember if I said it earlier but I’m probably a pretty unremarkable shooter by this forum’s standards but I’m usually one of the (if not the) most knowledgeable and experienced people on any conventional Army M4 range. The pop up qual still kicks my ass. I’ve probably shot both versions only 10 times in about a dozen years of NG and active service but the 250s and 300s always challenge me. That said, I hate ACOGs so I don’t know if I’ve ever shot pop ups with one. Either way, if you take a USGI trigger, targets that almost always blend into the background, and a red dot against a 300m target (even a large one), it isn’t necessarily easy IMO. Then you add in the occasional different type of ammo to mess up whatever you think you know about your holds and the fact that you’ve probably never personally seen where your bullet impacts at any of those distances beyond 50, and I don’t think we set ourselves up for much success.


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[JRB]

I've been always a little suspect about the Matech sight. I can never get as good a sight picture with the Matech as I could with the M16a2; not sure if it's the aperture or the sight radius that does me in. Not to mention the fact the elevation knob can be bumped far too easily.

One thing I've noticed with the new zero target, is that Soldiers are being told to aim POA/POI in the center of the target, when in fact POI should be 1.5 MOA low from the POA. Seen this mistake even being taught at initial military training qualifications.

I'd bring my own GI carry handle and install that in place of the Matechs if I was shooting irons and had the choice to do so. The A2's are simply fantastic and nobody appreciates what excellent iron sights they are until they're trying to shoot an AK or something else with crappy irons. The Matech, I agree, is just too delicate and doesn't inspire confidence even when I use it effectively. The fact that the aperture post itself is never securely locked in the up position bugs the crap out of me too - I've seen older joes trying to rest their helmet edge on the sight itself, A2 fixed carry handle nose-to-CH style, only to move the whole aperture and not realize it - Another point you addressed about properly sizing and securing your ACH.

As for the 1.5 MOA holdover on POI vs POA, the only time I see that practiced correctly is when zeroing ACOGs and I think that's only because most of the new ACOGs have it stamped right on the optic in big enough white letters that not even joe can screw it up. Mentions 4 MOA if it's mounted to a carry handle too.

The other tragedy is that entirely too many Soldiers can't shoot well enough that the 1.5 MOA difference in POI vs POA is a relevant factor.

[LittleLebowski]

Honestly, a basic pistol class would prolly teach more shooting fundamentals than a carbine or Appleseed class. The latter(s) would teach more zero/holdover/weapon manipulation knowledge, but it's my belief that from pistol shooting doth truth gunmanship arise.

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Honestly, a basic pistol class would prolly teach more shooting fundamentals than a carbine or Appleseed class. The latter(s) would teach more zero/holdover/weapon manipulation knowledge, but it's my belief that from pistol shooting doth truth gunmanship arise.

I agree. Heres a pre boot camp photo she was shooting at ear plugs jammed into .22 holes using irons. This was three position practice as a boot camp prep so Im really not sure what happened at quals.