Practice Drawing to low ready as a deterrent?!

[RJ]

...legal use of force and proper use of force escalation, than having to do with some technical ‘training rep’ that you can practice at the range...

Why can't you do both?

Or are you saying one precludes the other? Or maybe I'm just confused (which is not hard to do. )

[DacoRoman]

Or drawing too early and then possibly needing solutions that don't include a pistol. And we don't speed re-holster blind anymore.

There's a lot that can go wrong here.

I've been advised a full firing grip of the pistol in the holster is a ready position that can deliver an aimed shot as fast as a low ready without the implications of standing there with a gun in your hand. Possibly brandishing depending on locale.

Fairly straightforward to train as we already train from the holster so much.

Yes exactly.

I’m so glad for your input here…because that was my first initial thought as well. Especially as a civilian, if you aren’t sure it’s a deadly force scenario why are you whipping your smoker out to begin with? And if it’s a gray area, why not just get a good master grip on the holstered gun and retreat and escape (if possible).

Hopefully, if that whole OODA loop business is going well, I’ll be out of the engagement area long before I even have to tickle my cover garment.

Having said this I totally get that there are certain scenarios where having the gun out early and at the ready is the best decision to make tactically.

From a training perspective, the practice to draw to a low ready or other index in the face of a potential perp, seems to me, should be mainly practiced during scenario type training. I’m not sure that training to draw to a ready index sans a specific scenario does much.

[DacoRoman]

Chuck Taylor's (RIP) mantra, "Draw to the Ready, Up, Look, Press!"

Therefore incorporated into every draw stroke. Just a matter of halting the process at the Ready position.

Did he teach a compressed [high] ready?

[DacoRoman]

Why can't you do both?

Or are you saying one precludes the other? Or maybe I'm just confused (which is not hard to do. )

You can do both most certainly…but I’m just saying that practicing according to certain contextual principles, like understanding the ‘when and why’ not just the ‘how’, is super important, if that makes sense.

[vcdgrips]

JHC says:

“I've been advised a full firing grip of the pistol in the holster is a ready position that can deliver an aimed shot as fast as a low ready without the implications of standing there with a gun in your hand. Possibly brandishing depending on locale.”

I confess I have not drilled that cold each way to get an accurate baseline to compare.

My thoughts without having done so are:
A. Can you really as born out on a timer?
B. Can most people really….?
C. At a certain distance does that change for you and/or most folks?
D. Does the accuracy change in the same time constrains and/or at a certain distance?

From the admitted extrapolation POV only-the farthest distance I have repeatedly drilled the low ready is 15 yrds as that is a component to an agency qualification I often shoot. I cannot help be sense/feel/extrapolate that I would be faster from the low ready (muzzle pointed downward near the feet of the target) than my hand on the gun but still in the holster. The gun is simply moving less distance before I can get an acceptable sight picture for the accuracy standard at hand.

Thoughts?

[JohnO]

Did he teach a compressed [high] ready?

No. Chuck had one Ready position and that was what everyone would call Low Ready. Chuck didn't care for a Ready position where the muzzle was covering the target. He viewed that as an accident waiting to happen.

Chuck taught that the distance to the target determined the Ready position. With a target at 3 meters the Ready was held lower than a target at 15 meters.

Chuck's Ready position included a full firing grip and stance. The Up in the "Draw to the Ready, Up, Look, Press" was a pivot at the shoulder joint to raise the gun onto the target.

Everything above was Chuck's way of teaching flat range classes from beginner to skilled shooters. Chuck also taught tactical applications classes where ready positions and draw techniques were modified based on the situation. e.g. If you are facing and against a car you are not going to draw to the typical 45 degree Ready position. Chuck would say the scenario would dictate your draw stroke, "Solve the problem."

[breakingtime91]

JHC says:

“I've been advised a full firing grip of the pistol in the holster is a ready position that can deliver an aimed shot as fast as a low ready without the implications of standing there with a gun in your hand. Possibly brandishing depending on locale.”

I confess I have not drilled that cold each way to get an accurate baseline to compare.

My thoughts without having done so are:
A. Can you really as born out on a timer?
B. Can most people really….?
C. At a certain distance does that change for you and/or most folks?
D. Does the accuracy change in the same time constrains and/or at a certain distance?

From the admitted extrapolation POV only-the farthest distance I have repeatedly drilled the low ready is 15 yrds as that is a component to an agency qualification I often shoot. I cannot help be sense/feel/extrapolate that I would be faster from the low ready (muzzle pointed downward near the feet of the target) than my hand on the gun but still in the holster. The gun is simply moving less distance before I can get an acceptable sight picture for the accuracy standard at hand.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure, it would be interesting to do. I think low ready for me is somewhere I get to when I can justify that I may need to shoot. I would never do a low ready unless I felt I was under threat of bodily harm or death, or my dependents are. It's my last step before shooting somebody, if that doesn't deter someone who hasn't presented the "I need to shoot this person or I'll be dead right this second" nothing probably would. I have one example that I think a hard low ready with a carbine kept me from shooting a really angry guy. Back in 2012 some guys burned a religious book in Afghanistan, leading to some people getting really angry. They approached the FOB we were at and we got sent (there were very few of us on the FOB) to be QRF for the 2 Marines on post. On approach there was one gentleman leading the mob and he had some kind of blunt instrument made of wood. Several attempts to get them to stop didn't work, including a pen flare. At that point we still had our carbines slung in a casual manner and I decided that it was I either show I was willing to be violent or it would escalate into us killing him and more of the mob. I took a aggressive shooting stance with a hard low ready and told our terp to let him know if he took five more steps I was killing him first. That stopped the movement of the mob. The rifles didn't mean shit to them, me showing I was willing to kill him did. That is what I reserve a hard low ready for, when I can articulate why I used it, to try to avoid killing someone.

[Clusterfrack]

One of the most tense encounters I've had involved a concealed master grip instead of drawing to ready. While the situation resolved peacefully, a LEO friend commented that given the disparity in numbers, he would have drawn.

A couple of years ago ... three carloads of tweakers arrived at my family's backcountry picnic site and blocked our vehicle while they searched for their lost "stuff". I spent a few very tense minutes with my hand under my jacket telling them to leave...

[Tom Givens]

I'm not sure, it would be interesting to do. I think low ready for me is somewhere I get to when I can justify that I may need to shoot. I would never do a low ready unless I felt I was under threat of bodily harm or death, or my dependents are. It's my last step before shooting somebody, if that doesn't deter someone who hasn't presented the "I need to shoot this person or I'll be dead right this second" nothing probably would. I have one example that I think a hard low ready with a carbine kept me from shooting a really angry guy. Back in 2012 some guys burned a religious book in Afghanistan, leading to some people getting really angry. They approached the FOB we were at and we got sent (there were very few of us on the FOB) to be QRF for the 2 Marines on post. On approach there was one gentleman leading the mob and he had some kind of blunt instrument made of wood. Several attempts to get them to stop didn't work, including a pen flare. At that point we still had our carbines slung in a casual manner and I decided that it was I either show I was willing to be violent or it would escalate into us killing him and more of the mob. I took a aggressive shooting stance with a hard low ready and told our terp to let him know if he took five more steps I was killing him first. That stopped the movement of the mob. The rifles didn't mean shit to them, me showing I was willing to kill him did. That is what I reserve a hard low ready for, when I can articulate why I used it, to try to avoid killing someone.

We have a winner. That is an excellent example of using a presentation to Ready to avoid having to shoot.

[breakingtime91]

We have a winner. That is an excellent example of using a presentation to Ready to avoid having to shoot.

Means a lot coming from your sir, thank you.