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Thread: 45lc S.A.A

  1. #1

    45lc S.A.A

    Been interested in an SAA for some time. Unfortunately they have always been too expensive for my needs. $600+ is a little steep for something that would be shot occasionally but still it would be fun to own one.

    Wasn't going to stop at the LGS today....yea right. Anyway, found this pre owned Charles Daily import Pietta SAA in 45lc. I was hoping for a 38/357 because I already have those calibers but for a little over two bills ...why not!

    Nothing fancy. Price suits the type of use it will see.

    Now as far as ammo goes I'm not planning on going crazy but just in case is there a type or brand or characteristics to stay away from? I picked up some Cowboy loads at 850fps. Box of ammo cost about 1/4 of the gun

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Good catch at a good price!

    I’d avoid any loads labeled Ruger only.
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  3. #3
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    I'd use cowboy loads or our own @Lost River 's loads.

    https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/
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  4. #4
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    Save your brass and get into reloading. Learn to cast your own bullets from scrap lead. Factory loads are approximated with a 250-grain bullet and 6.5 grains of Bullseye. Solid utility gun.

  5. #5
    I described your options in post #10 here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....olt-Magnumized

    Your revolver is a Tier I gun, so go easy on it. A lot of cowboy ammo is meant for poking holes in paper plates at 7 yards, and that's about all it will do. I've had good luck with HSM. Save your brass, since the 45 Colt is a gateway drug to handloading.

    The original load--a pointed 255-grain bullet at 1,050 fps--was meant to kill Indian ponies at 100 yards and it worked. That's easily doable in your revolver. Don't worry about moving anything fast enough to expand. Upgrade to a flat-point SWC and performance on game gets much better.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
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  6. #6
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    The 1050 fps velocity often cited for the 40-grain blackpowder 1873 service load was based upon test firings from a 7-1/2" solid test barrel. After 1887 the shorter Schofield cartridge was standardized to.avoid having two different rounds in the Army supply system. The Schofield cartridge was loaded with 28 grains of Black powder and a 230-grain bullet for 770 fps from a 5-1/2" revolver. Today's Cowboy loads approximate this level and can be assembled with 4.5 grains of Bullseye in the shorter Schofield brass or 5.5 grains in .45 Colt brass.

    Commercial loads assembled in the longer Colt case with 40 grains of black powder produced about 900 fps from typical revolvers and can be approximated today with 7 grains of Bullseye or 8 grains of Unique without exceeding SAAMI MAP.

    Modern Italian clones can handle up to 7.5 grains of Bullseye or 8.5 grains of Unique, which exceeds the SAAMI max. pressure of 14kpsi, but is less than 20kpsi psi, similar to .45 ACP levels being within safe design limits for the modern Piettas and Ubertis.

    Accurate 45-246H weighs 250 grains in 1 to 30 tin-lead and is my design for the .45 Colt.
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    Last edited by Outpost75; 03-19-2023 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    The 1050 fps velocity often cited for the 40-grain blackpowder 1873 service load was based upon test firings from a 7-1/2" solid test barrel. After 1887 the shorter Schofield cartridge was standardized to.avoid having two different rounds in the Army supply system. The Schofield cartridge was loaded with 28 grains of Black powder and a 230-grain bullet for 770 fps from a 5-1/2" revolver. Today's Cowboy loads approximate this level and can be assembled with 4.5 grains of Bullseye in the shorter Schofield brass or 5.5 grains in .45 Colt brass.

    Commercial loads assembled in the longer Colt case with 40 grains of black powder produced about 900 fps from typical revolvers and can be approximated today with 7 grains of Bullseye or 8 grains of Unique without exceeding SAAMI MAP.

    Modern Italian clones can handle up to 7.5 grains of Bullseye or 8.5 grains of Unique, which exceeds the SAAMI max. pressure of 14kpsi, but is less than 20kpsi psi, similar to .45 ACP levels being within safe design limits for the modern Piettas and Ubertis.

    Accurate 45-246H weighs 250 grains in 1 to 30 tin-lead and is my design for the .45 Colt.
    The early Colt load used 40 grain of black powder, but that load proved to much for iron framed Colts of the period.

    The .45 Colt loads produced by the US Government’s Frankford Arsenal used 30 grains of black powder. Also commonly written is that early .45 Colt loads used 255-gr. bullets. Wrong again. They were 250-gr. conical bullets with two lube grooves and a hollowbase.

    The Schofield load used 28 grains of BP and a 230 gr bullet.

    The rim of the shorter Schofield .45 was too wide for the Colt. If troops were stuck with that load and used Colts, they had to skip a chamber to load only 3 rounds.

    Frankford Arsenal developed a hybrid Schofield round with a short case and reduced rim diameter that would work in the Schofield or the Colt.

    The Frankford Government .45 round was 28 gr of BP with a 230 gr bullet at about 780fps. Close to .45 ACP ballistics.

    That was the load used in the Philippines and what the Army spec'd for the 1911, more or less. (Originally the ACP used a 220gr bullet if I remember right.)

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the additional info. I had it mostly right but after age 70 the memory is hazy.

    From what I recall Browning's original .45 ACP experimental rounds fired a 200- grain bullet at 870+/- 30 fps. The Army wanted a minimum bullet weight of 230 grains at sufficient velocity to shoot through a horse broadside matching experience in the 1905 Thompson-LeGarde stockyard tests.

    Early .45 ACP in pre-WW1 era was 800+/-30 fps instrumental at 25 ft. from the muzzle. The British maintained this standard through 1940 for domestic production.

    US later raised this to 830 +/- 30 instrumental at 25 ft. to enhance reliability with adoption of the Thompson gun, spec later being corrected during WW2 to 855+/- 30 muzzle velocity.

    Throughout there was no change in the load, only in its standard for measurement. The service charge was nominally 5 grains of Bullseye with 230 FMJ and that still works although charge is expected to be adjusted at the loading machine to maintain specs, so may go to 5.5 grains with some powder lots.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 03-19-2023 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Back when I was playing the CAS game in the 1980s and -90s I found a box of NOS balloon head cases for the "45 Colt's". I had a custom mold from Hock that threw a 255g RNFP using 1-20 alloy, the alloy originally specified/utilized. I loaded 40g FFg black powder with the above bullet and fired them in a restored US marked 7-1/2" Colt. Chronographed on two separate occasions I got 907 fps and 917 fps which brackets the 910 fps original performance (7-1/2" barrel) I have seen reported in several sources.

    As late as 1888 Rem-UMC was still loading 40g of black behind a 250g bullet for civilians and Winchester's civilian load was a 255g over 38g of black powder. One researcher suggested Winchester switched from FFg to FFFg, saving 2 grains on every loaded round produced and still giving the original civilian performance of 910 fps from the standard 7-1/2" barrel. The load history for the black powder era 45 Colt would be a book of it's own.

    Dave

    PS: To follow the thread drift, Browning's original 45 ACP cartridge was a 200g @ 900 fps from a 5" barrel. Ordinance wanted the 230g bullet weight from the SAA days. At one time I had a deteriorating paper box of issue 45 ACP ammo dated 1912. The label claimed 230g at 820 fps. While in Vietnam in 1969 I came across the military specs for 45 ACP ammo. It called for a 230g @ 830 +- 25 fps.

  10. #10
    This isn't going to be for anything more than occasional paper punching. Just an inexpensive way to own a cowboy gun.

    I did start to get into reloading 45-70. Haven't actually done it yet but do have the molds, lead, brass,....etc..

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

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