RFI: Issues with Blue Bullets 200 SWC

[willie]

Neither have I heard that one. The reason it's a dubious statement is that there's much variation involved with components and the pistols themselves. Reloading tech is precise, and then it's not. In most cases dimension numbers are nominal. They can be adjusted. Too, what fits one chamber might not fit another. Die sets within the same caliber vary too. Cases are another variable. They differ in thickness and length.

[willie]

I hand cycled some of the “shorties” through a 10 round mag and while a little clunky they seemed to cycle fine, previously from slide lock the top round would nosedive and not feed. So I’m hopeful, I also noticed the “tap” I mentioned helped feed rounds was because it bumped the mag up just hair higher and then the round would feed. So I may get an EGW mag release to see if that helps (they hold the mag higher than a stock Colt release).

I'm happy to hear about the progress. Certainly I'm no expert but will comment further. Changing the mag catch is introducing another variable, and you may be fixing something that's not broke. My opinion is that the problem is bullet shape. The other brand fed reliably. Use those. If you look at all the different 200 gr swc offerings, variations in shape will be evident. I began casting bullets over 50 years ago and studied the topic intensely. I still do. Cast bullet shooters must make the bullet fit the gun. I say reject the blue bullet. Differences between the two jumped out and hit me in the face.

You did not mention magazines except to say that it's a 10 shot. 7 shot 1911 mags are more reliable than 10 shot mags. The best mag in the business is made by Virgil Tripp. He offers an upgrade for 7 shot mags. I urge you to investigate this brand. Also, I suggest polishing the ramp with Flitz polish on a Q-Tip.

Also, try this. Set aside the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Adjust seating die to seat without crimping. Produce a batch. Then adjust or move up the seater stem so it won't touch the bullet. Now screw the die down onto the loaded round enough to remove case mouth flare. Check to see if bullet will plunk into chamber. Your barrel should be removed so you can use it to check bullets. Adjust die if they don't.

Hand cycling is not the acid test. Shooting reliably is. Give us a range report please.

[Jim Watson]

Commercial casters come and go, bullet profiles come and go.
I got tired of chasing the SWC, TC, FP, etc. wild goose and now load roundnose and concentrate on shooting.

[Exiledviking]

I haven't heard that one before. I'll have to experiment with it the next time I load H&G 68s. I've been using the old "thickness of a thumb nail" spec for the amount of shoulder above the crimp. I don't suppose you have a link to that thread do you? Was that on the "Bullseye L" board?

@358156hp
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13849...0-swc-question

[NPV]

I'm happy to hear about the progress. Certainly I'm no expert but will comment further. Changing the mag catch is introducing another variable, and you may be fixing something that's not broke. My opinion is that the problem is bullet shape. The other brand fed reliably. Use those. If you look at all the different 200 gr swc offerings, variations in shape will be evident. I began casting bullets over 50 years ago and studied the topic intensely. I still do. Cast bullet shooters must make the bullet fit the gun. I say reject the blue bullet. Differences between the two jumped out and hit me in the face.

You did not mention magazines except to say that it's a 10 shot. 7 shot 1911 mags are more reliable than 10 shot mags. The best mag in the business is made by Virgil Tripp. He offers an upgrade for 7 shot mags. I urge you to investigate this brand. Also, I suggest polishing the ramp with Flitz polish on a Q-Tip.

Also, try this. Set aside the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Adjust seating die to seat without crimping. Produce a batch. Then adjust or move up the seater stem so it won't touch the bullet. Now screw the die down onto the loaded round enough to remove case mouth flare. Check to see if bullet will plunk into chamber. Your barrel should be removed so you can use it to check bullets. Adjust die if they don't.

Hand cycling is not the acid test. Shooting reliably is. Give us a range report please.

Mags used include Wilson 10 rounders (new styles there’s two types), 47s, ETMs, Ed Brown 8 rounders, and Colt 7 rounders. The issue was spread across all mags but was more prevalent with the Wilson 10 round mags. All of these mags have been flawless in the gun up to this point so I have no need for different magazines.

Respectfully I will not be flitzing the feedramp on a custom 1911 that has already been polished and throated. I’m not a believer that polishing does much of anything so long as the feed ramp is cut properly and doesn’t present any egregious burrs or machining marks.

I’ll try crimping with a “normal” crimp die with the next batch once I get OAL figured out. Understood I still need to shoot them and I’m hoping to get out Wednesday or Thursday this week and will report back.

ETA: I plan on going back to the Brazos bullet, but I have 750 BBs still sitting on my bench plus about 200 more already loaded so I’m looking to get through them as painlessly as possible before I buy more from Brazos.

[willie]

@NPV At the risk of stating the obvious, I'll say that the blue bullet in your 1911 is nose diving, a term describing a malady often seen in 1911's. Main cause is the gap existing between the top round and the round under it. Viewing a loaded mag from the front, you can see this gap. Adding rounds to the mag increases the gap.

As the top round moves across the one under it, the rim drags on the case. Then this round pivots and nose dives against the ramp. Some claim that length of ramp is the other variable. Longer ramps can cause nose diving. Ramp dimensions will vary within and between brands. Also, we can't assume that all custom smiths will cut the ramp to the same dimensions. This narrative presents my attempt to explain your pistol's malfunction with the blue bullet.

Further, nose diving can occur more often when hand cycling than when firing. The reason is that during firing, the top round has moved in the mag slightly and rests closer to the front. Hence, the gap between this round and the next one has decreased. The angle is smaller. Pivoting is less. Nose diving is less likely to occur.

For clarity's sake, I wish to add that your pistol tolerates the Brazos bullet's shape but not the blue bullet's profile. Diving occurs with both.

[358156hp]

@358156hp
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13849...0-swc-question

Thank you! I've bookmarked it. It's especially welcome because I've been on the fence for quite awhile over getting a 160 gr mould.

[03RN]

That's annoying. I don't have anything really to add except a couple years ago I started to get intermittent failures to feed in my lw champion. It's apparently got a tighter chamber than my loaded. I got a case gauge and had to reset my dies. I guess they got kinda sloppy and I never noticed.

[revchuck38]

Commercial casters come and go, bullet profiles come and go.
I got tired of chasing the SWC, TC, FP, etc. wild goose and now load roundnose and concentrate on shooting.

I've also gone with RNs in my loading for .45 ACP and 9x19. You still have to be careful with OAL due to variations among mold manufacturers and the introduction of bullets with no lube grooves.

Strangely enough, my 9x19s were happy with these SWCs when I tried them.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, the other stuff has to be right, too.
I have been loading a coated 9mm with empty lube groove and a pronounced shoulder. Longer OAL chambers freely with that sub-bore diameter nose sticking way out.
I am now loading some straight sided bullets, fortunately they plunk at the same seating die position - not the same OAL, this is a blunter design.

I shot some of the old Bull-X 9mm SWC and they fed in one or another gun but they closed down and I have not pursued the notion, roundnose is much easier to deal with.

There were a couple of brands of .45 SWC made in my area that did well in most guns, but they are gone and others seem to have subtly different molds, not as versatile. Plated SWCs were a total bust.