Pistol Caliber Carbines For Patrol Use?

[HCM]

Ocean City (MD) PD also used semi-automatic MP-5's which they kept well into the rifle era. I attended an IALEFI RTC sponsored by OCPD some years ago. Everyone had AR-15's except for the one Ocean City officer who seemed embarrassed by the weapon. It struck me how times had changed that what was probably a cool-guy weapon a few years previously was viewed as obsolete.

I also recall the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority Police using semi-automatic MP-5's though I can't confirm that. Both Transit Police and OCPD certainly deal with extremely crowded environments which may well have influenced agency decision-making (especially if Flite Control rounds weren't yet available).

That said, while the MP-5 was probably a great PCC for its time, it certainly was not common-place.

They were not common so I’d be curious if the leadership of those agencies at the time had been to the FBI’s national academy.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Not my lane but what about the Secret Service with Uzis and P90s? I know the latter can shoot down flying saucers as I saw that on SG-1. One guy used to shoot a civilian P90 at TX IDPA carbine matches. I think I saw Peruvian Special Forces using them in a hostage rescue, IIRC.

[psalms144.1]

Not my lane but what about the Secret Service with Uzis and P90s? I know the latter can shoot down flying saucers as I saw that on SG-1. One guy used to shoot a civilian P90 at TX IDPA carbine matches. I think I saw Peruvian Special Forces using them in a hostage rescue, IIRC.

My last agency went from shotguns only to shotguns and Uzis to shotguns and MP5s to shotguns and M4s. I got to shoot the Uzi a bunch at our automatic weapon's instructor course, and, for me, I VASTLY preferred the MP5 (we had the KN versions). Of course, the wide-spread availability of M4s rendered both moot.

Until I retired, I had two of the last MP5s in the field, hold-overs from my protection gigs. They were super fun to shoot, very accurate and reliable. BUT, there was no reason to take them out of the safe except to play on the range once we had Mk18s and M4s generally available.

I've shot the P90, but fail to see the purpose of it or the MP7 in any but EXTREMELY narrow band of circumstances.

YMMV, and I know at least one of the US' full-time face shooting teams was very enamored of the MP7 in the early days of it's availability, so there must be something to them...

[TGS]

Not my lane but what about the Secret Service with Uzis and P90s? I know the latter can shoot down flying saucers as I saw that on SG-1. One guy used to shoot a civilian P90 at TX IDPA carbine matches. I think I saw Peruvian Special Forces using them in a hostage rescue, IIRC.

The USSS hasn't issued either in decades. The Uzi in particular, which was replaced by the MP5 a long time ago, which in turn has also largely been replaced by the KAC SR-16.

[Paul Blackburn]

There is nothing in the OP about a motorcycle unit. Policing is regional - “road patrol” or “on the road” is simply how some places refer to uniformed patrol.

It was mentioned by the OP about midway through what the PCC’s were being considered for.

[HCM]

It was mentioned by the OP about midway through what the PCC’s were being considered for.

Yes, in post 50, but still no mention of it being considered for motorcycle units.

There are “real” rifle options for motors units. However, the primarily reasoned were magazine, compatibility with duty pistols, commonality of training with ARs vs shotguns, and “over penetration” concerns.

[TGS]

It was mentioned by the OP about midway through what the PCC’s were being considered for.

I think you're reading a different thread than the rest of us.

I can't find anything in Magz's posts about motorcycle units. In post #50 he specifically stated that the staff running the evaluations articulated they were replacements for their 870 shotguns: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1463629

[HCM]

Not my lane but what about the Secret Service with Uzis and P90s? I know the latter can shoot down flying saucers as I saw that on SG-1. One guy used to shoot a civilian P90 at TX IDPA carbine matches. I think I saw Peruvian Special Forces using them in a hostage rescue, IIRC.

The USSS hasn't issued either in decades. The Uzi in particular, which was replaced by the MP5 a long time ago, which in turn has also largely been replaced by the KAC SR-16.

AFAIK the only USSS component which used the P90 was the ERT team for the Whitehouse. Apparently, they were still using them as of 2008. Our Academy at FLETC acquired some P90s as part of the various DHS mergers and they were given to Secret Service around that time. Of course that was 15 years ago.,

The MP 5s are still around though, especially in “box gun” roles for fixed posts and vehicles in protection but that seems to be more an artifact of insufficient numbers of KAC-16s than intentional choice.

[jnc36rcpd]

The CBP SRT contract guns use the Glock mag lowers and the Miami Beach Police contract guns use the P320 lowers. Those are probably the largest contracts I know for the 9mm guns that didn’t want B&T mags. Westchester PD in NY ordered a small amount of APC9 SDs with Glock lowers (14 or so guns). Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office in Florida bought Glock lower guns but I can’t find how many they got. São Paulo Military Police in Brazil awarded a contract for APC40s with Glock lowers. I can’t find the number of guns ordered but the B&T press release mentioned the São Paulo Military Police has over 100,000 personnel. I haven’t heard of any reliability issues with the APCs that use other than B&T magazines.

Wobbly, any idea what these departments are using these weapons for? Standatd patrol or SWAT weapons or some specialized function?

Somewhat off topic from patrol long guns, an LASD SEB deputy at TacOps East mentioned that their teams' primary long gun was the MP-5. That seemed an odd choice in today's world, but mad respect for the unit.

[Hambo]

They were not common so I’d be curious if the leadership of those agencies at the time had been to the FBI’s national academy.

Or someone had been to HK's ITD classes. Except for sniper classes, I think everything they taught had some time devoted to MP5s.