I'm curious if anyone has noticed a considerable change in POI while shooting HST 124gr +P & 147gr rounds through the same gun? I know every gun is different, and there are a ton of variables, but I figured there might still be a pattern. If there is a significant POI change, what distance does it start to really show? 10/15/20/25yds?
By chance HST 124+P and 147, are the two 9mm JHP loads I use. Out to 25 yards, in Glock and HK pistols, I haven't noticed any difference in POI, although the 124+P has more felt recoil. Perhaps with a RDS, a difference might be discernible.Originally Posted by MEAT
Excepting M&P 9mm pistols, I notice little difference in POI of impact in semi-auto pistols in 9, 40, 10 and 45. I see big differences in POI of impact in revolver cartridges, especially shooting 44 special in .44 magnum handguns. I actually have different Scandium 329 revolvers for use with .44 special for training, as opposed to .44 magnum which requires a tall front sight, as the S&W adjustable rear doesn't have enough range.
147 shoots about 3 inches high for me at 25 yards.
Pat
M&P9 zeroed at 25 yds shooting the following loads at 25 yds:
147 gr Fed AE9FP FMJ--note this shoots to the same POA/POI as P9HST2 147 gr duty ammo
124 gr Fed P9HST3 +P JHP
Last edited by DocGKR; 12-09-2012 at 06:26 PM.
I shoot 115gr and 147gr, but rarely 124. I do not notice any POI shift at all. The farthest I actually ever shoot though, might be an x ring at only 7 yards or so. I don't notice any difference shooting 1" dots at 7 yards either. Last week I was shooting a full-sized IPSC steel target at 100 yards with 147gr ammo, and the sight picture appeared normal "theoretically", but as I don't do this with 115gr commonly, I have nothing to compare it to.
DocGKR, have you run the same test with your Glock pistols to determine if here is POI shift between 147 and 124+ P?
A RDS certainly shows up any variation in POI of impact better than my eyes with iron sights.
Thanks for all the help guys. Part of the reason I'm asking, is that 124gr +P's are printing 4-6" high @ 25yds with a .215 Sevigny sight (GEN 4 G17). According to Dawson's calculator, I need the .245 height front to get the correct POI for that load. If the 147's are printing 4" higher, I'll need a .275" high front, which seems ridiculously tall. I'll have to do some more testing, but either way I need a taller front.
Off topic but if your only shooting at 7 yards and in you have a huge whole in your training/practice. Gun fights with pistols do happen at longer ranges at times. There was a recently shooting with a LEO where the bad guy was shooting at the officer from 60 yards out and almost killed him. Luckly the officer got his rifle ready before and was able to kill him. Here in Alaska I know of a shooting involving a Trooper at 35 yards. There is also a shooting with a MP that happened about 15 years ago taht was over 70 yards with a M9 Beretta. You need to train from muzzle contact to at least 25 yards and I go all the way out to 100 at times.
(Edited missed the part about you shooting at 100 yards on steel carry on)
Pat
I will be happy to do that next time I am at the range."have you run the same test with your Glock pistols to determine if here is POI shift between 147 and 124+ P?"
M&P9 zeroed at 25 yds shooting the following loads at 25 yds:
147 gr Fed AE9FP FMJ--note this shoots to the same POA/POI as P9HST2 147 gr duty ammo
124 gr Fed P9HST3 +P JHP
Incidentally, I just checked this issue for myself about a week ago. DocGKR's pictures closely mirror what I see shooting Gen3 G34s at 25 yards, with both Ameriglo Operators and Ameriglo Defoor sights, using 124gr + p Gold Dot, and 147 gr. HST.
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