I have had 100% reliable pistols become unreliable when not cleaned, and then become 100% reliable again after a good cleaning. In the case of my series 1 Kimber 5” .45, it will become unreliable after approximately 500 rounds without cleaning.
I have had 100% reliable pistols become unreliable when not cleaned, and then become 100% reliable again after a good cleaning. In the case of my series 1 Kimber 5” .45, it will become unreliable after approximately 500 rounds without cleaning.
This is what I've been doing but with #9, I've read about Kroil over the year's, I'll give give it a try, maybe it'll work better for lead removal,Originally Posted by TCinVA
just don't want to harm the bore's.
I would like to add that many if not all of the long series of articles quoted within JohnO's post are from Precision Shooting, a magazine produced during the time period we had a recent forum discussion about, wherein many members here were basically saying that all publications from the period were worthless drivel. 🙂
Yours Truly was one of the dissenters in said thread, and is selfishly using this post, and the fact that he mentioned PS specifically in said thread, to bask in his own glory and exceptional humility.
So we need to more carefully define "cleaning".
When a pistol is fired, there is a cloud of burning gas that expands from every area of the pistol that isn't air tight:
This hot gas carries in it an assortment of suspended particulate that will condense and accumulate on working parts of the pistol. This residue, for lack of a better term, is made up of a number of unpleasant compounds and large amounts of carbon. This residue will built up in critical working areas of the firearm and can potentially negatively impact function.
Proper lubrication goes a long way to preventing the residue of firing from hindering the reliable function of the pistol. Proper lubrication will encapsulate the particulates of concern and flow them away from the critical working areas of the gun, keeping it running. One of the things your motor oil does is carry contaminants and particulate away from critical working surfaces. These are hopefully deposited inside the oil filter where they are rendered harmless and the oil itself is free to recirculate through the system and pick up more. This cycle repeats and it's why (also combined with chemical changes) the oil eventually goes from an amber color to black. Pistols are not closed systems so the lubricant carries particulates away from critical working areas and stays gone. This is why we need to reapply lubrication to our pistols. Lube evaporates, burns off, and runs away thus it must be reapplied to allow the gun to continue to function. If one were to examine the aforementioned rifle that Pat Rogers never cleaned they would find it crusted and filthy in lots of areas...but not in the areas that were critical to function because Pat lubricated the gun.
The bore of the handgun is not where any of this is taking place. The chamber can potentially impact function if there is some sort of residue buildup that impacts feeding or extraction. That tends to be fairly uncommon with modern factory ammunition.
If properly lubricated, most pistols will function into the tens of thousands of rounds without cleaning. The lube will flow the undesirable stuff away from critical working parts. The residue may still be in the gun, but not accumulated in areas where it will diminish function. Todd's guns would get to the point where handling them would leave your hands black. His measure for when it was time to clean was generally when carrying the gun started to stain his clothes. Removing all that crud was quite a chore once it had built up that much, but it wasn't necessary to remove it to keep the gun running.
At some point you do get enough buildup of crud to impact the function of the gun. On semi-autos the area under the extractor can accumulate enough buildup to prevent the extractor from really grabbing a good hold on the cartridge rim. That tends to be a difficult area to clean or for solvent to really do a good job of cleaning out. Most every other part of the gun can be kept running by literally spraying the frame and the slide down with an aerosol solvent and letting it drip and dry. Then reapply some lubricant and keep shooting.
Using decent quality FMJ ammunition, you could conceivably shoot a handgun until you have broken enough major parts to deadline the gun and never run a brush through the bore.
You can fire most pistols tens of thousands of rounds without taking the gun apart to clean it (remove the aforementioned firing residue) and the gun will still function reliably IF you properly lubricate the gun for that purpose.
What you can't do is shoot a dry, dirty gun very much before it stops working properly.
3/15/2016
What we probably should focus on cleaning more than the bore of pistol barrels that shoot FMJ ammo is the magazines. Disassembling them and running a blue shop towel with some solvent on it to get rid of the carbon buildup and the accumulated dirt, sand, pocket lint, dead skin, hair, and other nastiness that collects there is going to go a long way to keeping the magazine running like it should.
3/15/2016
Absolutely 100% agree. I am amazed at the number of "gun guys" who have never cleaned their mags, nor even knew they should clean them, nor even know how to clean them. I have seen so many magazine related stoppages that I consider them to be a weak link that requires constant maintenance. Perhaps it is my competition background, where we clean mags every time they hit the dirt (1911's). I've seen baseplates pop off, followers that turned sideways, weak springs, gunk, lint, deodorant flakes etc cause the mag to stop feeding bullets. I have worn out glock mag bodies. I had 2 that the liner via the spine, where the metal is pressed with alternating tabs have popped out, causing them to catch on the follower. Para mags were the most temperamental. Glock mags seemed to be the most forgiving. I have seen single stack 1911 mags where the tac welded mag plate broke away from the mag body.
I clean mags by disassembling, inspecting and push a silicon rag through the body with a screwdriver. I advocate always carrying at least one spare mag when packing. The main reason is due to malfunction issues. In my mind, to keep a gun running, I concentrate on ammo, mags, extractor and lube. What good is accuracy if your gun doesn't run?
YMMV Cheers, Steve
I clean mags far more often than guns. I haven't bought welded floorplate 1911 mags for years because of weld failures and they're a hassle to clean. A shotgun bore mop is ideal for cleaning the inside of mag tubes.
We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......
Small stainless brush and a can of carburetor cleaner..
I can’t speak to the 365 platform, which was the subject of the OP. I can speak about Glock pistols, the AR platform in semi-auto from personal use, revolvers to a limited extent and 1911 pistols as a casual competitor years ago. No recent and in depth experience with shotguns, but the thread started with handguns.
From a Glock armorer perspective, the factory recommends an annual detail strip, cleaning and inspection by someone certified.The individual operator can field strip and clean after every shooting session, but in my experience that isn’t always necessary. It’s also contextual. Fall or jump into salt water and I would do a detail strip as soon as possible. But that’s exceptional.
@TCinVA has very good points about magazines and cleaning/lubing critical areas like the extractor and rails. My only contribution if I may, would be to recommend not to let oil/lube sit in the striker channel for a long period of time(the factory specifically advises against oiling there).
I’ve seen revolvers that had decades of lube in the lock work and wouldn’t work smoothly until cleaned. Cooper once noted a 1911 trigger “froze” because of gunk in the channels for the trigger stirrup. A brush and a little solvent got the thing running again. Bill Rogers used to soak his school’s training pistols with spray lube, but those were run weekly and cleaned annually as I recall. I’ve seen a few early generation Glocks which were overlubed, so to speak, and then sat for years. The lube thickened up it seemed and the pistol would exhibit light strikes. So a little tlc on an annual basis is what I like to do with my personal guns, or semi-annually (6 months) if it’s a training gun-like 5-10,000 rounds in that time. YMMV, of course. On pistol barrel, assuming decent ammo, punch a wet brush through the chamber all the way through every 3-6 months, followed by a clean patch.
This is true...but it's happened mostly because the lubricants used were terrible. Lots of them get gummy or leave behind sticky residues when they evaporate/migrate/burn off. Worse yet, a lot of gun owners have used various grease products not realizing that grease is just oil mixed in a binder and the oil does oil things (evaporates, migrates, burns off) and leaves the binder behind where it can hold grit and contaminants instead of anything that lubes. I looked at an old production Python a few months ago priced at $5,000 on the shelf. I was checking function and pressed the trigger only to watch the hammer fall in slow motion...most likely because the internals of that revolver are gummed up with some shit quality lube that will require a good soak in mineral spirits and some scrubbing to get loose.
Using a good quality oil is crucial to keeping that kind of problem from occurring. Slip 2000 does a good job of remaining oil and not getting gummy. I use Amsoil's gun oil because I already order their vehicle maintenance products so it's an easy add on and it doesn't change viscosity when the gun gets hot or when the temps get really cold. Nor does it leave behind any gummy or hard residues. And when it goes away, you can tell because the area looks dry...indication to apply more lube.
If you stay away from bad products (rem oil, hoppe's gun oil...pretty much anything your grandpa bought to lubricate guns) and gimmick products (anything that tells you to season your gun parts like an iron skillet) and just apply the decent lube (Slip 2000...you don't need the EWP version) and don't use grease, then you aren't likely to get the gummy, sticky buildup that hinders function.
3/15/2016
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