being "trail safe"

[High Cross]

Anything from David Paulides is HIGHLY suspect. He’s literally a fraud and a conman who left LE under dishonorable circumstances.

Not to thread drift, I am curious about how he left law enforcement. Would you be able to PM me? Credibility for other issues aside, that trail gear video I posted is excellent.

[HCM]

Not to thread drift, I am curious about how he left law enforcement. Would you be able to PM me? Credibility for other issues aside, that trail gear video I posted is excellent.

PM sent

[AMC]

I remember that definition of hobo as well. Now, hobo has become synonymous with homeless, vagrant, bum, and 'person who may be experiencing houselessness'.

Unhoused Resident.

[Coyotesfan97]

Jakey Bum’s. If they had a shopping cart that was a Jakey RV.

[fatdog]

One plea deal in place from this incident.....

I still suspect this kid might be alive if he had come out of his holster shooting instead of talking...

Salamander's excellent posts got me thinking about this subject. Our deer season is finally over and I am headed into my favorite haunts in the Talladega National Forest this weekend because that marks the beginning of "safe to hike" season. But events late last summer in an area I frequent have got a lot of us TNF hiking and 4 wheeling people looking over our shoulder in a different way.

There are a few, very few, Black bears in the TNF and in the last 30 years I have never seen one. Our greatest critter threats are timber rattlers, copperheads, rapid coyotes, feral dogs, rapid racoons I would say in that order. I once would have told you MJ growers were the greatest human threats if you stumbled into their grow patches, but they have been pretty well suppressed the last decade or so, or at least it seems that way to me. Then you have a few methbilly's, but those are not as frequently encountered the last 5-6 years because the cartel import streams have priced their manufacturing efforts out of the market. We have had a really bad run of rural convenience store robberies and murders the last few years, particularly in Talladega county, and until last summer, that was probably the place where I was on highest alert, stopping to gas up or grab something on my way to the trailhead.

The murder of a college student by some really strange hobo's who had built a big camp last summer changed everybody's perspective. While the judge in the case put a gag order on everybody involved, there have been some third party researchers who turned up a lot of disturbing facts about the murderers

Summary of the incident

From other reports, we know that there were over a half dozen tents in this hobo encampment, so it was a much larger group than these two women. Who knows when the others decided to bug out. The five year old toting a pump shotgun around...yesh...I respect the restraint the deputies showed.

I really hate that my peace of mind about wilderness hiking has been more or less disrupted by this event, but it is probably a healthy wake up call for solo hikers like me. I think Salamander pointed out a lot about the criminal human element of wilderness safety in his posts.

The days of me entering the trail with anything but a hi-cap handgun and two reloads are certainly over forever. I guess I should go ahead and sell all these great "woods gun" big bore revolvers because I will never carry one again. The nearest grizzly is over 1,500 air miles away, but what I could stumble into is now just as challenging in my mind and it might resemble a firefight more than trying to stop the charge of a bad critter.

My alertness will be tuned up this weekend and from now on I guess. Stumbling upon a timber rattler will happen this year as it always does, and we will just avoid each other as usual. Stumbling on violent gangster cult hobo's is much higher on my risk list now.

And no, if you have me at gun point and a window opens, I am not going to give you a chance by telling you to drop the gun and get on the ground like this kid did. A whole lot more shooting and no time for talking.

[Shawn Dodson]

Last Fall, while mountain biking forest trails near my home, I found myself between a sow black bear and her cub. I rode up on them on the edge of a clearcut while they were feasting on wild blackberries. The sow charged in my direction but stopped behind a blackberry thicket about 30 yards away.

I carry a G19 IWB when I mountain bike. I drew my pistol and got behind my bike. The cub ran off into the woods followed by the sow about 20 seconds later.

I'm more concerned about dogs, coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions than bears and people. I put a rearview mirror on my bike to keep an eye on my six as I bike through the forest.

I always carry my G19, but after the encounter, I put a bear bell on my bike and wear a referee whistle. In my bike's trunk bag I carry an ASP telescoping baton and a 4 oz can of Fox Labs pepper spray - in pockets on the bag that are partially zippered to allow quick access . I also don't go mountain biking as early in the morning as I used to, allowing others to get out on the trails and establish human activity.

[fatdog]

The shooter in this incident in my original post, after pleading 2nd degree murder in Federal court, rolled on the other suspect and she got convicted this week.

The culprit convicted this week apparently planned it all and watched from the woods.

The fact all this happened in an area I have regularly trekked in for 3 decades will have me never looking at things out in my favorite place the same way. To me, this was the "freest place in Alabama", public lands, not populated, a long way away from the high crime cities in our state, often a place I will sometimes hike and not see anybody all day, or if I do they are nature loving hikers just like me.

For decades I have considered the timber rattlers and copperheads in the area, or some rabid racoon to be my only serious threats. Black bears are present in tiny numbers, but generally shy and never seen. It was the sort of area where one of "us" might convince ourselves that a 5 or 6 shot revolver with serious ammo was sufficient as a hiking or trail gun. I did that for years. Sort of the ultimate J frame lifestyle place in my view.

Evil people do hang out in the woods and the national forests. I reread Michael Bane's Trail Safe book and he nailed it all in there with the exception of the "history" and researching an area providing indicators on this one. Until this incident there was nothing in the news or history of the place that would have given one pause about it being an area that was frequently targeted by bad actors. Quite the opposite.

I will never hike it again without a service pistol and a reload on my belt. Your chance of getting conversationally close to me if we meet on the trail is now zero, no matter who you are (exception for uniformed LE).

But I still look forward to my next trip there. Just no longer naive about there being relative degrees of safety for different places in this world, there are no safe places, none. If you think there are places that are, you are fooling yourself, I have been for decades.

[kaztac]

I bought an M&P 10mm to have the best of both worlds.... Power and capacity. then I took it shooting and realized that I suck with it. I'm gonna stick to my Redhawk 8 shot .357 for now.... At least until I I get more practice in with my 10mm

[Malamute]

For decades I have considered the timber rattlers and copperheads in the area, or some rabid racoon to be my only serious threats. Black bears are present in tiny numbers, but generally shy and never seen. It was the sort of area where one of "us" might convince ourselves that a 5 or 6 shot revolver with serious ammo was sufficient as a hiking or trail gun. I did that for years. Sort of the ultimate J frame lifestyle place in my view.

Evil people do hang out in the woods and the national forests. I reread Michael Bane's Trail Safe book and he nailed it all in there with the exception of the "history" and researching an area providing indicators on this one. Until this incident there was nothing in the news or history of the place that would have given one pause about it being an area that was frequently targeted by bad actors. Quite the opposite.

I will never hike it again without a service pistol and a reload on my belt. Your chance of getting conversationally close to me if we meet on the trail is now zero, no matter who you are (exception for uniformed LE).

But I still look forward to my next trip there. Just no longer naive about there being relative degrees of safety for different places in this world, there are no safe places, none. If you think there are places that are, you are fooling yourself, I have been for decades.

We all have to make those calculations and decisions about whats appropriate and "enough".

Ive spent quite a lot of time alone in the hills and mountains in Az and northern Rockies, literally years worth of camping, often on the ground out under the stars. A quote in a book about Arizona in its frontier days someone described as "Arizona ain't for amateurs". With border crossings and drugs coming in, a major cross country route, I-40, (Flagstaff PD used to have higher than average arrests of wanted felons) and perhaps something in the water that seemed to make some people a bit off regarding civility and proper conduct, it still seemed to apply when I lived there and today. That was in the back of my mind when spending all that time out. Im still generally satisfied with a good revolver I shoot well and is capable of dealing with whatever the greatest wildlife challenge I may encounter in the area. Some places I chose to carry more spare ammo, often a carbine (meaning Winchester), and sometimes a pocket backup, but still primarily a belt revolver. A J frame and belt revolver are very different animals. Perhaps its the full size belt revolver lifestyle? The bottom line is I shoot revolvers better and with less effort regardless of how much I've tried with autos. On board ammo and reload speed seems less important if you shoot better in the beginning.

Yes, theres no 100% safe place, its all relative to other places. The main issue is keeping the mindset that anything can possibly happen about anywhere, its just the odds are much lower in some places. I like meeting and talking to people out in the hills, so long as they dont seem like outlaw or society reject types, that isnt likely to change. As has been pointed out, the guy had a failure to connect the dots soon enough to react appropriately. He didnt manage the situation as well or fast as he should have. The issue wasnt the gun he had or how many rounds it held, but getting it into effective action soon enough. Driving to the place to hike and enjoy the outdoors is still much more dangerous than being in the outdoors.

[fatdog]

We all have to make those calculations and decisions about whats appropriate and "enough"..

So true, we all have to make the risk calculation and get comfortable with it. For me personally, the thing in this instance that supports what Tom Givens has been saying for some time, that is the multiple bad guys scenario is so common now, and how many rounds do you want to fight with.

That second perp who got convicted this week was holding the pistol gripped shotgun in the woods and supposed to be the backup to the shooter. When the bullets started flying she got scared and bugged out and gave the shorty 12ga to her 5 year old to hold when she reached their base camp. However if she had not lost her nerve and engaged as part of the robbery, it becomes a situation where I would sure like to have more than 6 rounds in the gun for the multiple bad guy scenario. That is the thing that has flipped me away from my revolvers. I think Tom's rule is "prepare for 3".....then I remember the story Spencer Keepers tells of the 5 bad guy scenario at his front gate when he only had a J frame in his pocket.

If we lived in a one on one world with the criminals I would not have this hesitation about revolvers. I competed with K frame for two consecutive years in IDPA back right after the turn of the century and got classified EX with one, and I have no reservations about my skills with one including the shooting and the reloads, just with that capacity thing now because I believe any fight I encounter will likely start and end with what is in the gun.