Jakey Bum’s. If they had a shopping cart that was a Jakey RV.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
One plea deal in place from this incident.....
I still suspect this kid might be alive if he had come out of his holster shooting instead of talking...
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Last Fall, while mountain biking forest trails near my home, I found myself between a sow black bear and her cub. I rode up on them on the edge of a clearcut while they were feasting on wild blackberries. The sow charged in my direction but stopped behind a blackberry thicket about 30 yards away.
I carry a G19 IWB when I mountain bike. I drew my pistol and got behind my bike. The cub ran off into the woods followed by the sow about 20 seconds later.
I'm more concerned about dogs, coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions than bears and people. I put a rearview mirror on my bike to keep an eye on my six as I bike through the forest.
I always carry my G19, but after the encounter, I put a bear bell on my bike and wear a referee whistle. In my bike's trunk bag I carry an ASP telescoping baton and a 4 oz can of Fox Labs pepper spray - in pockets on the bag that are partially zippered to allow quick access . I also don't go mountain biking as early in the morning as I used to, allowing others to get out on the trails and establish human activity.
The shooter in this incident in my original post, after pleading 2nd degree murder in Federal court, rolled on the other suspect and she got convicted this week.
The culprit convicted this week apparently planned it all and watched from the woods.
The fact all this happened in an area I have regularly trekked in for 3 decades will have me never looking at things out in my favorite place the same way. To me, this was the "freest place in Alabama", public lands, not populated, a long way away from the high crime cities in our state, often a place I will sometimes hike and not see anybody all day, or if I do they are nature loving hikers just like me.
For decades I have considered the timber rattlers and copperheads in the area, or some rabid racoon to be my only serious threats. Black bears are present in tiny numbers, but generally shy and never seen. It was the sort of area where one of "us" might convince ourselves that a 5 or 6 shot revolver with serious ammo was sufficient as a hiking or trail gun. I did that for years. Sort of the ultimate J frame lifestyle place in my view.
Evil people do hang out in the woods and the national forests. I reread Michael Bane's Trail Safe book and he nailed it all in there with the exception of the "history" and researching an area providing indicators on this one. Until this incident there was nothing in the news or history of the place that would have given one pause about it being an area that was frequently targeted by bad actors. Quite the opposite.
I will never hike it again without a service pistol and a reload on my belt. Your chance of getting conversationally close to me if we meet on the trail is now zero, no matter who you are (exception for uniformed LE).
But I still look forward to my next trip there. Just no longer naive about there being relative degrees of safety for different places in this world, there are no safe places, none. If you think there are places that are, you are fooling yourself, I have been for decades.
Last edited by fatdog; 09-30-2023 at 08:37 AM.
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I bought an M&P 10mm to have the best of both worlds.... Power and capacity. then I took it shooting and realized that I suck with it. I'm gonna stick to my Redhawk 8 shot .357 for now.... At least until I I get more practice in with my 10mm
We all have to make those calculations and decisions about whats appropriate and "enough".
Ive spent quite a lot of time alone in the hills and mountains in Az and northern Rockies, literally years worth of camping, often on the ground out under the stars. A quote in a book about Arizona in its frontier days someone described as "Arizona ain't for amateurs". With border crossings and drugs coming in, a major cross country route, I-40, (Flagstaff PD used to have higher than average arrests of wanted felons) and perhaps something in the water that seemed to make some people a bit off regarding civility and proper conduct, it still seemed to apply when I lived there and today. That was in the back of my mind when spending all that time out. Im still generally satisfied with a good revolver I shoot well and is capable of dealing with whatever the greatest wildlife challenge I may encounter in the area. Some places I chose to carry more spare ammo, often a carbine (meaning Winchester), and sometimes a pocket backup, but still primarily a belt revolver. A J frame and belt revolver are very different animals. Perhaps its the full size belt revolver lifestyle? The bottom line is I shoot revolvers better and with less effort regardless of how much I've tried with autos. On board ammo and reload speed seems less important if you shoot better in the beginning.
Yes, theres no 100% safe place, its all relative to other places. The main issue is keeping the mindset that anything can possibly happen about anywhere, its just the odds are much lower in some places. I like meeting and talking to people out in the hills, so long as they dont seem like outlaw or society reject types, that isnt likely to change. As has been pointed out, the guy had a failure to connect the dots soon enough to react appropriately. He didnt manage the situation as well or fast as he should have. The issue wasnt the gun he had or how many rounds it held, but getting it into effective action soon enough. Driving to the place to hike and enjoy the outdoors is still much more dangerous than being in the outdoors.
Last edited by Malamute; 09-30-2023 at 10:37 AM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
So true, we all have to make the risk calculation and get comfortable with it. For me personally, the thing in this instance that supports what Tom Givens has been saying for some time, that is the multiple bad guys scenario is so common now, and how many rounds do you want to fight with.
That second perp who got convicted this week was holding the pistol gripped shotgun in the woods and supposed to be the backup to the shooter. When the bullets started flying she got scared and bugged out and gave the shorty 12ga to her 5 year old to hold when she reached their base camp. However if she had not lost her nerve and engaged as part of the robbery, it becomes a situation where I would sure like to have more than 6 rounds in the gun for the multiple bad guy scenario. That is the thing that has flipped me away from my revolvers. I think Tom's rule is "prepare for 3".....then I remember the story Spencer Keepers tells of the 5 bad guy scenario at his front gate when he only had a J frame in his pocket.
If we lived in a one on one world with the criminals I would not have this hesitation about revolvers. I competed with K frame for two consecutive years in IDPA back right after the turn of the century and got classified EX with one, and I have no reservations about my skills with one including the shooting and the reloads, just with that capacity thing now because I believe any fight I encounter will likely start and end with what is in the gun.
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