Although the OP is about forward movement, other movement has been mentioned.
So I'll allow it.
This way:
@Mr_White
Although the OP is about forward movement, other movement has been mentioned.
So I'll allow it.
This way:
@Mr_White
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Tying your shooting to foot placement puts a very serious plateau on how good you can get a shooting while moving. Let the sighting system tell you when to break a shot, not where your feet are. If you're putting conscious thought into where your feet are, then you aren't putting it into visual patience and picking a very specific target spot.
Work on moving while trying to reduce wobble in dryfire, then focus on seeing what you need to see to get the hits that you want when you do live fire.
Folks,
Thanks so much for all your help. I really appreciate it.
Randy
Originally Posted by okie john
How it was explained to me years ago - It may not be something you want to do...but something you may have to do.
Me too. I teach and practice shooting on the move. If I am honest, unless I am trying to advance behind what little cover 9mm or .223 disks of copper and lead alloys provide, I will likely separate the skills in order to do each as best as I cam. If my wobble zone while moving at the selected rate is TOTALLY within the target zone, meaning marginal hits are still acceptable, I will do it, otherwise shoot or move.
In my career I have learned/taught/done the Groucho Walk, the Tightrope Walk, the Railroad Tracks, the Tactical Shuffle, the Natural Stride, the Hot Coffee Carry, the Diagonal Traverse, and like many other things, they are cyclical, depending on who is having success with which technique at the time. And square range vs FOF certainly applies.
A shooter needs to try them all and find what works best for them; they do not need to learn all of then to a half assed standard.
Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own.-Bruce Lee.
A big problem is that if we are honest with ourselves, our skills will vary based on recency of training/practice, day of the week, moon cycle, bowel load (insert the rest of Pat Rogers List of Shooting Excuses), and only hits count . My cold skills after a training cycle are much better than after a six week layoff. Guys who do it a lot will see better results than those of us who spend our time doing other things.
pat
Last edited by UNM1136; 02-16-2023 at 08:42 PM.
Found this video. Very helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_Yq2vCpH0
Im just a guitar player with a podcast that has decent shooting skills. That said I’ve always questioned the utility of moving forward and shooting. Sideways makes sense and it’d be fairly rapid movement.
NOW, I did see another poster say it could be for moving to forward cover. That makes a bit of sense. But so would ceasing shooting and running like fuck to the cover before engaging/reengaging.
It just seems like such an outlier application that could crowd out work on much higher probability needs.
Aaron D.
EvoSec
Evolution Security Podcast
Am I the only one that at about 3:02 started thinking to himself "Hey, hey, we're the Monkees..."?
pat
I always looked at movement as the gift that keeps on giving. At the least it should get you off threat axis. It also can create a burp in the bad guy's OODA loop. And movement often accomplishes both of those things as well as putting you in a better position to shoot.
The best direction of movement pretty much dependent on the situation. If you are moving to cover the location of the cover pretty much determines direction of movement.
If you are subject to a sudden attack movement should be instinctive. We tried to ingrain moving while drawing in the officers we trained. Movement straight in or straight out really accomplishes little, it keeps you on the threat axis and unless you can close enough to smother/deflect/takeaway the bad guy's weapon, it really doesn't make it harder for them to carry out the plan they set in motion to shoot you.
If you figure the angles, inside the distance most gunfights take place, diagonal movement into the threat (about 45 degrees) accomplishes more per step than lateral movement.
I've FoF'ed it with 'virgin' role players and the results bear out the angles.
FWIW
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
I agree with much of what you've said. What I've found though is that movement, when allowed, tends to be instinctive. When one trains a "you must do this" approach, things tend to fall apart.
My anecdotal experience...
Our Tactics unit devised a study. They had us strip down to our white t-shirts and green pants. They brought us individually into a room and told us that we would be facing an unknown threat of unknown severity. We were to respond as appropriate. There were pieces of cover (55gal drums at one or two high at a couple distances) and when they walked us out to the
arena" we had to face away from the center. We were given a sims pistol and I don't remember perfectly but I think they didn't give us any direction except when to turn around. What we didn't know was that our opponent was given the same briefing and was one of us. We turned around and saw a person with a gun...
For me... I thought the test was about threat identification (for whatever reason) and not shooting the wrong person. While facing away getting ready to start I kept telling myself "watch the hands and give commands"...
I turned, saw a guy with a gun and literally (yes... out loud) said "fuck it..."... I started moving to my left and fired two rounds as I moved... which I later learned both hit (at that point I had a large audience watching from above who had gone before). I played some games with cover and ultimately was advancing on my oponent when they called the scenario.
Movement needs to be an option... a decision. It is not a skill... at least as it comes to learning. We can walk. We can run. We can move. The skill is shooting while moving. Everyone talks about walking heel to toe. Does anyone walk another way?
Walk! Run! Move! If you need to shoot and can shoot do it while doing the thing you know how to do. If you can't... do the thing you need to do.. probably faster... then do the shooting thing.
This is where I get a bit pissed about some firearm training. Some people will take anyone who may or may not be able to shoot standing still and give them a movement class. That's stupid.
If you can't shoot you can't shoot. Learn that. If you can shoot, then do that while moving and things will probably work out.
If you still want to pay money, take a class where people will help you do what you can probably do on your own and have you do what you know how to do while you do what you know how to do. The reality is you know how to move but you could probably still benefit from learning how to shoot so they'll likely subtract from that to keep you entertained.
I could probably do a movement class for an individual and keep it beneficial. For a class of even five people... waste...of...money.
Reply With Quote
