First shot flyers from semi auto pistols

[lwt16]

Here’s a 50y target with a stock Glock and the first round was loaded via slide lock drop.

Not sure which was the first shot. I’m only seeing 9 holes so it’s mis-scored anyway. If I did load 10, I’m not sure where that 10th round went.

Regards.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Mas weighed in in this fairly recently, but I can't find his post?

I recall that @Mas has written, in a number of his articles over the years, that the hand-cycled first round can do this, and has stated that the best 3 rounds from a five round group, fired from the bench, can be generally equivalent to a group from a Ransom Rest....throwing out that first hand-cycled round and one more to account for the human factor.

I even recall a head-to-head contest with another writer using a Ranson Rest.....most likely in American Handgunner magazine. Mas' 3 round groups were damn close to the results from the Ransom.

[GJM]

From 2014, many of the usual suspects, and some discussion of first round:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....00-yards/page5

[JCN]

Mas weighed in in this fairly recently, but I can't find his post?

I'm pretty sure Wiley Clapp was the first authority I saw mention what he called "4+1 syndrome," with the first shot going to a different POI than those which followed from a semiautomatic. The theory is that the gun is in a very slightly, subtly different battery with the first hand-cycled round compared to the automatically-cycled following shots. I've seen it a good bit in gun testing.

One of the things we supposedly pay for in high-dollar custom 1911s is fitting which will keep that from happening. That said, at Bianchi Cup when I shot it back in the day, you showed up cold and then went hot through each element of the entire 48-round stage. All strings were six shots (revolver neutral). Some shooters would load six-round mags so slide-lock would remind them to reload and so they wouldn't lose count, but others made a point of keeping the gun hot so as distances increased, they wouldn't suffer the 4+1 thing. (And also, of course, to have a fallback if they had a dud round.) And these were guys shooting top-dollar custom autos.

So, yeah, it's A Thing.

[1911Nut]

Based on my non scientific observations, and the reports of others, I believe that the first hand cycled round (either sling shot'd or from slide stop) may hit to a different point of impact than a first cartridge that has been cycled by the firing process.

I hope to try to test this with different pistols as time allows, but I am throwing this out there in case others can try to observe or test this in their own group shooting. If it is a "thing" you may be able to incorporate this into your planning, in terms of the order you address targets or the condition you leave your pistol in.

Please post pictures or observations.

I've not done much shooting with semi-auto pistols at distances greater than 50 yards, and none that I can recall in which I was "group shooting" at that distance. But I do remember that as far back as the mid-70's it seemed to be accepted that the first hand-cycled round from an auto pistol would likely separate from the remainder of the shots in the group.

I had a couple of 1911's in .45 ACP caliber back then that usually demonstrated that trait at ranges as close as 25 yards, and when developing handloads for those pistols, I would always shoot the first (hand cycled) round of ammo into the bern before shooting 5-shot groups.

I haven't seen that occur in multiple dozens of other pistols in the ensuing years, including 1911's in caliber .45 ACP.

[EVP]

I think the only proper way to test this out would be using a correctly setup ransom rest and run a couple of rounds of groups. The human factor has to be taken out.


If a pistol does seem to suffer from this effect, I think GJM has the right idea in incorporating that into your procedures. I have kinda already worked this into how I finish a range session with my carry gun. I will usually fire off the chambered hollow point round first. I then practice, at the end of practice I usually have a few rounds of HSTs that I have cycled while clearing the gun out for dryfire work previous to the range. I will usually top the magazine with those rounds, fire said rounds, and end up with a fresh round of HST cambered, then top off and proceed to carry on. Maybe a little much but I like the confidence of knowing the state of the gun and eliminating as much variables as I can.

[Totem Polar]

Here’s a 50y target with a stock Glock and the first round was loaded via slide lock drop.

Not sure which was the first shot. I’m only seeing 9 holes so it’s mis-scored anyway. If I did load 10, I’m not sure where that 10th round went.

Regards.

Cool P80.

[JHC]

From 2014, many of the usual suspects, and some discussion of first round:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....00-yards/page5

A detail about hand cycling just occurred to me. See if you think it might matter at all.

A common method I use of hand cycling administratively on the range or loading up a pistol to carry is to lock the slide back, insert magazine then sling shot the slide back to it's farthest most extreme "range of motion" before letting it fly.

Sometimes on the range I'll insert a mag with the slide forward and just rack the slide but when shooting deliberate precision stuff I'm most often use the former method.

Think that might be closer to how the slide runs in recoil?

[lwt16]

Cool P80.

It was my retirement gift from all the coworkers at the PD.

Inside the box was enough cash to purchase my 870P and Colt AR from my former agency.

Plus, the department gave me my G45 duty pistol as a retirement gift. So I was blessed with quite the love offering. It made my retirement the most awesome time ever.

[Totem Polar]

It was my retirement gift from all the coworkers at the PD.

Inside the box was enough cash to purchase my 870P and Colt AR from my former agency.

Plus, the department gave me my G45 duty pistol as a retirement gift. So I was blessed with quite the love offering. It made my retirement the most awesome time ever.

That’s awesome!

Back on topic…