Omega 3 smoothies and a ship deployment would raise suicide rates. And homicides.Originally Posted by BaiHu
Omega 3 smoothies and a ship deployment would raise suicide rates. And homicides.
#RESIST
Ouch! And bazinga!
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Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
I fear that the government will use these diagnoses as a reason to disqualify huge numbers of veterans from owning weapons. While I imagine it is appropriate in some cases, I believe many veterans are able to cope with their PTSD successfully through various treatments. Just look at how veterans are encouraged to claim PTSD for VA benefits purposes without regard to the implications later in life.
I have been blessed to have served a pretty safe, dull 13+ years as a Soldier. Many are not so lucky.
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The cynic in me thinks that one of the contributing factors to the number of military suicides, is that by putting so much emphasis on suicide "prevention", we are constantly, albeit unintentionally, reminding our people that suicide is an available option.
The suicide stand down day we had last month was an utter joke. They spent the entire time talking about seeing warning signs, and looking out for your buddy, but not a single minute on the causes of what is making people want to kill themselves. They're trying to treat a symptom, but ignoring the root cause of the issue, which basically boils down to horrendous leadership above the company level. They see suicide as a disease that is really no one's fault other than the person who tried it. They generally fail to see that if you don't run your soldiers into the ground and treat them like human beings, they will generally have a reduced desire to kill themselves.
But those questions are too hard to ask/answer. So instead they go after the low hanging fruit of CYA, and tell us to look for 'red flags' and leave it at that.
Unfortunately, this is a very common myth; that talking to a person about suicide 'gives them ideas' or helps them realize that 'everyone is thinking about it.' There's no data to support the theory. In fact, just about any suicide prevention FAQ that you will find on the internet specifically addresses the myth. Just two examples, of which many can be found:
http://www.crisiscentre.bc.ca/get-he...out-suicide/#2
http://www.suicidecallbackservice.or...ide-Myths.htmlWill talking about suicide to a person make them suicidal?
There is no research evidence that indicates talking to people about suicide, in the context of care, respect, and prevention, increases their risk of suicidal ideation or suicidal behaviours. Research does indicate that talking openly and responsibly about suicide lets a potentially suicidal person know they do not have to be alone, that there are people who want to listen and who want to help. Most people are relieved to finally be able to talk honestly about their feelings, and this alone can reduce the risk of an attempt.
Myth: Talking openly about suicide increases the risk.
Fact: It is important not to treat suicide as a taboo subject. Raising the issue sensitively and asking directly about suicide gives the person at risk permission to speak about his or her distress, and demonstrates to the person that you care. Rather than feeling worse, the person at risk could feel relieved if the issue of suicide is raised in a caring and non-judgmental manner. This could prevent action and increase the chances of the person at risk seeking further help.
This same myth seems to carry through a lot of taboo subjects. Take drug use, for example; where some people think that sitting down and having a heart-to-heart talk with a family member (particularly parent-to-child) will somehow open them up to experimenting in a world of drugs to which they were previously ignorant.
I just don't think that anyone in the world ever needs to be reminded that "suicide is an available option." I don't know a single adult who isn't:
1. Aware of their mortality
2. Aware that they could choose to end their life
No one forgets that suicide exists and is suddenly reminded by outreach programs; especially not the people who are actually at risk.
This is outside of my lane.
But food for thought, dude it took Audie Murphy the most Combat decorated U.S. Soldier of the Second World War and famous Movie Star to admit he struggled with PTSD before it ever got any real attention/respect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy
http://www.georgiaveterans.org/audie_murphy_ptsd.htm
And truthfully, it may have took him being a Movie Star to get the attention to the issue more so than his resume as a Soldier.
Guys just struggle to cope with what they saw/did and how to come back here.
I was talking to a really dear friend of mind about his brother coming back from Afghanistan, he had just got back in June from a Deployment, his brother was coming back. His wife was nervous because, she didn't know what to say or how to act, it was like they were just going to start falling back in love again. The truth is... they'd both learned to be independent again, they've been separated for 6 months.
That added with all the stresses, coming down off of being in a War Environment for that time... It's just really hard to adjust for anyone, period, and I don't care if you don't see anything horrific. Elevated stress levels, separation from comforts, constant anxiety.
I have a another friend who was a Marine who did have PTSD.
They wanted to do electroshock therapy on him. But he had insomnia, paranoia, he told me honestly that at times he thought he was going to go insane.
Here's another shocking statistic, a lot of Veterans are homeless. (ETA: For the Integrity of the post, I'm not going to modify my words, but for the sake of being accurate, I'm going to change "A lot of homeless are Veterans." to the 2nd half of that sentence.)
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/veterans.pdf
I'd imagine it has to do with a lapse into substance abuse and lack of coping.
I know this is going to sound bad, etc and not come across right, but as a Christian, my opinion, Human beings were not designed for a life of Warfare, I think part of it's in our nature to defend ourselves, etc, etc, but... Dude, it's horrible, I don't care how good of an experience you have, it's a horrible thing. Not saying it isn't necessary, it's just a truly terrible thing.
ETA 2: I'll say this, the only place I see as much tension in people as you see in some Veteran's experience is honestly in abusive households. Just dealing with that constant surge of emotions/feeling of anything can happen/on edge/anxiety, that and, from what I've heard (again, heard), long days and short nights, depending where you are, a lot of guys are running 16-18 hour work days and frustrated in their work environment.
ETA 3: I really think when Soldier's get back they should have 2-4 weeks off to just be with their families, or just wind down. (And I know they get leave, and I think that's about what they get, but I had again, dear friend, when he went on leave mid-deployment, he was supposed to have people with him at all times in case he was a threat to himself or others, IIRC, the family had to sign paperwork, etc. I may be mistaken, but I think he had to sign with either an agreement of his leave or what not, either they had to sign or he had to sign.)
Last edited by BWT; 10-09-2012 at 05:21 PM.
The mental health staff at the jail I used to work at made it a point to debunk this myth during our suicide prevention training. Some officers seemed under the impression that asking the suicide-risk questions during the booking process could lead to more suicides. Uhhh...no.
Great posts. I have to agree that a lot of our problems, as an Army, are caused by leaders who are dirt bags. They made the early ranks because they checked certain blocks and made higher ranks because their leaders were afraid to give them a "needs some" on an evaluation. (Speaking strictly about NCOs, in my experience)
I spent a few years as an Army recruiter and it was easily the worst experience of my career, almost completely due to leadership. Anyone who knows about recruiting now versus 6 or 7 years ago knows that they HAD to change the way recruiters work because guys were killing themselves.
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As far as stigmas, I couldn't detect much of one during my time in the Marines from 2007-2011. The guys in my workplace with PTSD used to talk openly with us about their treatments and whatnot. This was in the middle of the work-day sitting in the 3-shop, not during some heart-to-heart conversation at a secluded lake during sunset. Accessibility to help, both officially through the system and unofficially through non-military, non-profit organizations on base to specifically help service members, was amply available. Self-medicating is extremely common though.....and it seems to be common through all of the public safety services; self-medicating is very high among EMTs and cops as well. Maybe there's something deeper going on there that warrants investigation.
I wasn't diagnosed with PTSD, TBI, or anything of the likes.....but many months after I EAS'd I still got a "check-up" call from the Wounded Warrior Regiment, where they just asked how everything is going and what issues I might be having in life they could help with. Pretty cool, actually.
Not having PTSD, I honestly think the biggest roadblock to receiving treatment is the service-members' own mental thoughts. When you are looking at your buddies who have to live with burns and whatnot, I imagine it's pretty damn easy to second-guess the legitimacy of your issues.....especially when you're dealing with the average personality a grunt has.
Also, another point I've noticed is a lot of the PTSD publicity is not appreciated by service members, increased support networks be damned. The fact that some employers are not hiring vets because they think every single vet is obviously suffering from PTSD and about to massacre babies and burn the company building is a very real dynamic which a lot of my buddies across the branches are not appreciating right now.
And before I forget, I think it's important to remember that not all suicides are PTSD or combat related. Sometimes, military lifestyle can just really suck as I tried to touch on in my first post. A regular job can ruin your day.....the military can ruin your life, if for whatever reason (legitimate or not), you find yourself on the wrong end of the system.
And pregnancies. Illegitimate or not.
So, I guess we've still accomplished the end-state of the usual safety brief: Do not add or subtract from the population.
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All in all, this thread seems to be pretty good given the bleak topic. I'm going to send a link of this thread to a friend of mine who's an epidemiologist. Specifically, she works on suicides in the military and even gave a multi-national briefing on such in Israel a few weeks ago. I'll see if she has anything to add.
Last edited by TGS; 10-09-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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