115 v-crown

[DiscipulusArmorum]

I've long been aware of the Brassfetcher testing. Still, there's a reason the V-Crown stuff is so inexpensive and remains so even now.

I prefer proven efficacy over economy when it comes to self-defense ammunition. I, and my loved ones, are worth the additional (minor) expense.

Do as you please.

Never said that V-Crown was my first or even second, third choice. I've got plenty of 147 HST from years ago, so I'm good for now.

I was merely responding to the broad assertion that "V-Crown JHP seems to offer uncertain performance against heavy clothing barriers" when the evidence you cited was a video where the load was 124gr out of a short barrel and the OP was discussing results from 115gr out of a full size gun.

[the Schwartz]

It's possible that the 115gr V-Crown may expand more reliably than the 124gr bullet



Both bullet weights perform inconsistently in cloth covered Clear Ballistics gelatin.

Despite the well known problems with clear gel, I think we can agree that the V-Crown is not demonstrating the robust expansion in testing that we expect of modern hollow-points.

Absolutely.

The V-Crown design (regardless of bullet weight) has been found by quite a few agencies to be lacking in terms of its terminal expansion and performance—especially after barriers that other JHP designs seem to handle rather well.

As I stated earlier, there's a reason for its inability to command more than ⅔ the price of Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot in the present market.

When choosing a JHP for self-defense, one can ''economize'' or ''optimize''. I prefer the latter.

[Fsumach]

I’d be interested to hear more details about the agencies that are having issues with vcrown if you have them.

I’m not sure I buy the price argument on its own. Ranger T still fetches huge premiums for instance and isn’t any better than other designs that don’t. When HST was $17/box people were paying $30 for Ranger T. My own experience is that, before this current market insanity, ATK started cracking down on dealers selling 50rd boxes to non-LEO, and that drove prices up.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, just curious given the relatively great BrassFetcher test. Lots of Speer 53617 still left in my safe

Absolutely.

The V-Crown design (regardless of bullet weight) has been found by quite a few agencies to be lacking in terms of its terminal expansion and performance—especially after barriers that other JHP designs seem to handle rather well.

As I stated earlier, there's a reason for its inability to command more than ⅔ the price of Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot in the present market.

When choosing a JHP for self-defense, one can ''economize'' or ''optimize''. I prefer the latter.

[Hambo]

As long as ammo on the DocGKR list is available, it makes no sense to be a real world tester of other ammo.

If it were a choice of SIG or Fiocchi JHP, I'd buy the SIG.

[the Schwartz]

I’d be interested to hear more details about the agencies that are having issues with vcrown if you have them.

NDAs limit providing more details.

I’m not sure I buy the price argument on its own. Ranger T still fetches huge premiums for instance and isn’t any better than other designs that don’t. When HST was $17/box people were paying $30 for Ranger T. My own experience is that, before this current market insanity, ATK started cracking down on dealers selling 50rd boxes to non-LEO, and that drove prices up.

Since I never made the argument that price alone should be the sole driver of selecting ammunition, there is no need to '' buy the price argument on its own''. My commentary was simply that price is reflective of demand where the product's performance commands it. As a rule, ''bad product collects dust on shelves; good product moves''. Looking at any of the online retail search apps, the SIG offering languishes at 60% - 67% of the price of the other two designs.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, just curious given the relatively great BrassFetcher test. Lots of Speer 53617 still left in my safe

Well, there is the key term—''relatively''—that qualifies the performance of the V-Crown.

One need only review the FBI test protocol results provided by ATK for both the Gold Dot and the HST designs.

When compared to both, the V-Crown exhibits much lower expansion ratios than the Gold Dots and HSTs and performs relatively poorly to them.

[HY07]

The 115gr Sig Vcrown ammo that I have that comes in the black "365" box measures between 1.047" and 1.051"
and the 124gr that comes in the Elite Performance Box is around 1.054".

[DiscipulusArmorum]

In the past I've gotten just as wrapped up in terminal ballistic minutiae as anyone, but in this thread you have some good examples of how far out of touch the gun nerd community is with the circumstances of non-enthusiast gun owners.

These are the kind of people that want to go into a store and buy 1 or 2 boxes of something, and where paying 2x for HST even in small quantities might uncomfortably stretch the wallet. If Joe or Jane Blow that I'm talking to in real life says to me "I'm going to Cabela's and have $40 to spend on some SD ammo for my full-sized night stand gun, is this 115gr Sig load at $17.99 a box a good choice," I can wrinkle my nose and say "no, no, you must buy the HSTs that are 2x price, the gelatin testing shows that they expand x fractions of an inch more and you're a fool who doesn't value your life if you don't use something on DocGKR's list" or I can look at the real world use case here and say, "There's better rounds, but this is a decent choice compared to the other stuff in that price range and at least with this you can afford to shoot a full magazine worth and still have another box to load your home mag with. Worry more about whether or not the ammo is reliable in your gun, your own skills, and other more important parts of your home defense plan."

Like I said before, I'm well-stocked with HSTs and have no need to buy any V-Crown, but I'm glad to have some decent looking test data on a load that's cheap and widely available in the places that regular people (read, people who don't post on gun forums or order ammo by the case online) go to buy ammo.

[willie]

I guess old age has shriveled my brain because some of the comments went over my head. I'm not sure what's being debated. Major manufacturers spent large sums of money developing ammo on the Doc list which meets FBI criteria. The astute shopper can locate and pay sensible prices for Federal HST in boxes of 50 but won't find it on MidwayUSA. The Vcrown certainly would beat hardball. So would the hot Magtec round and the newer Fiocchi bullet. The older Federal jhp so popular 25 years ain't a slouch either. Neither is the Win Silvertip. The man in the street has choices if he will search. Since he never heard of Doc's list, this fellow is not obsessing about bullet choices like us nerds.

[Hambo]

In the past I've gotten just as wrapped up in terminal ballistic minutiae as anyone, but in this thread you have some good examples of how far out of touch the gun nerd community is with the circumstances of non-enthusiast gun owners.

That's a Captain Obvious statement if I ever read one.

These are the kind of people that want to go into a store and buy 1 or 2 boxes of something, and where paying 2x for HST even in small quantities might uncomfortably stretch the wallet. If Joe or Jane Blow that I'm talking to in real life says to me "I'm going to Cabela's and have $40 to spend on some SD ammo for my full-sized night stand gun, is this 115gr Sig load at $17.99 a box a good choice," I can wrinkle my nose and say "no, no, you must buy the HSTs that are 2x price, the gelatin testing shows that they expand x fractions of an inch more and you're a fool who doesn't value your life if you don't use something on DocGKR's list" or I can look at the real world use case here and say, "There's better rounds, but this is a decent choice compared to the other stuff in that price range and at least with this you can afford to shoot a full magazine worth and still have another box to load your home mag with. Worry more about whether or not the ammo is reliable in your gun, your own skills, and other more important parts of your home defense plan."

Their bone dry Shield EZ and lack of training/practice will be more of a problem than whether they choose ball or HST.

[Navin Johnson]

If you want v crown buy fucking v crown and let it go

Who cares

Most including this forum the projectile from a service caliber pistol will not be the deciding factor