10mm field pistol -- FN and G5 20

[Phaedrus]

I was pretty excited about the new crop of 10mm pistols but my hopes are fading. Somewhere I read that the M&P 2.0 was designed with heavier bullets in mind but I can't verify the truth of it. Right now it's new enough that I've found no credible sources that can verify reliability with 200gr or larger bullets. Since I actually do rely on a sidearm for protection from Grizzlies my main criterion would be the ability to run reliably with heavy hard cast. There are few places in the CONUS with more big bears than my corner of SW Montana, not far from Jellystone. At my previous job here you pretty had to carry bear spray to walk the grounds of the property, and we kept a stack of cans in the kitchen. My P30 runs 200gr Underwood perfectly, and I don't think just launching a 180gr a little harder is enough of an improvement to bother. Ultimately I might just go with a .44 Mag and call it good. FWIW, once I get to where I'm camping the Beretta 1301 Tactical loaded up with Green Lightning takes over as primary.

Still, if the code has finally been cracked and there's a striker 10mm that will run 200gr ammo reliably I'd love to get one! And it can be a one trick pony, I'm okay with giving up reliability with lighter stuff to get dependable performance with heavy bullets. I've got plenty of other sidearms for CCW.

[GJM]

How do you think your splits / transitions would compare with the HK USP 45 Super ?

C’mon George - your already willing to spend your time, ammo money (and sacrifice your wrists and elbows —compare all them field guns side be side !

Hell, throw in a .44mag Ruger Alaskan with some 305 grainers in there too!

We need “GJM’s Complete History of Field Pistols Tested”. So you’ll probably need to break out your slicked up magnum single actions too.

Maybe one standardized test. El prez like start, start when you hear a tree branch snap, target rushing towards you from 25yds. A-zone is the size of a bear head.

Jeremy

I am hoping there is a USP FS .45 with an Acro coming sooner than later. Without the optic, it isn't something I would carry much.

I was pretty excited about the new crop of 10mm pistols but my hopes are fading. Somewhere I read that the M&P 2.0 was designed with heavier bullets in mind but I can't verify the truth of it. Right now it's new enough that I've found no credible sources that can verify reliability with 200gr or larger bullets. Since I actually do rely on a sidearm for protection from Grizzlies my main criterion would be the ability to run reliably with heavy hard cast. There are few places in the CONUS with more big bears than my corner of SW Montana, not far from Jellystone. At my previous job here you pretty had to carry bear spray to walk the grounds of the property, and we kept a stack of cans in the kitchen. My P30 runs 200gr Underwood perfectly, and I don't think just launching a 180gr a little harder is enough of an improvement to bother. Ultimately I might just go with a .44 Mag and call it good. FWIW, once I get to where I'm camping the Beretta 1301 Tactical loaded up with Green Lightning takes over as primary.

Still, if the code has finally been cracked and there's a striker 10mm that will run 200gr ammo reliably I'd love to get one! And it can be a one trick pony, I'm okay with giving up reliability with lighter stuff to get dependable performance with heavy bullets. I've got plenty of other sidearms for CCW.

I think a hard cast bullet out of a 9, 40, 45 or 10mm would likely do what you need it to. I haven't seen anything that makes me think the M&P 10 would reliably do that.

The G5 20 and FN have me more excited about 10mm than anything in a number of years.

What is the preferred JHP for a 10mm, the Gold Dot or something else?

[MickAK]

What is the preferred JHP for a 10mm, the Gold Dot or something else?

Gold Dot or HST last time I looked, same as 9. I haven't heard about anything else or heard anything particularly negative about those offerings. If there's something that reliably outperforms them I missed it.

[Clusterfrack]

...The G5 20 and FN have me more excited about 10mm than anything in a number of years.

What is the preferred JHP for a 10mm, the Gold Dot or something else?

I like the new HST 200gr (1100fps) load. Unless I'm away from civilization for days, I carry with a HST200 in the chamber and swap mags when I move between field and town. That way, I don't have to keep unloading/reloading. I figure the 1st round against a bear would probably be a warning shot, and if not the HST200 is still decent.

I bought enough to last for a while when it first came out. I checked on Federal's site, and they are charging an insane $50 for 20. WTF? But using AmmoSeek located more reasonable prices of around $1.50/round.

[Evil_Ed]

<slight hijack>

Aaron Cowan/Sage Dynamics posted on either IG or Twitter last night pointing out that in 11 years of giving his handgun classes, he's never had anyone show up with a 10mm...that he's literally seen more 32ACP and 45 Long Colt show up.

That's one of those random "Huh, that didn't occur to me" things No, I don't suppose I'd want to show up to an 800-1000 round class with a pallet of 180gr 1200fps 10mm...

</ slight hijack>

I'm kind of in the market for another 10mm (I have one of the single stack Sig P220s with fixed sights they sold a few years ago; it's nice and all, but a boat anchor with 9 shots). I've been side-eyeing a Colt Delta Elite, but honestly really more interested in whomever wins the Sig P320-10mm/Glock Gen5/S&W 10mm/FN 10mm exposition here. Truthfully not really interested in the Sig P320-10mm; I have a 320 in 45ACP and it's a handful and I can only imagine the 10 would be worse. I had a Gen3 G20C which was fun but after reading too many stories of problems with the factory G20Cs and things like split slides, etc, I sold it. The S&W is intriguing and you'd figure as one of the originals they'd engineer for it correctly...to me the FN is the wildcard as they don't have the history with 10mm that Glock or S&W have.

[GJM]

HST and Gold Dot are JHP loads that weren't available in the past, when I was messing with 10mm field pistols. I have a mild preference for Gold Dot, based on my experience with it in 9/40, but I would like to know which bullet is tougher. I used the Critical Duty in .45 as a tough JHP for the USP FS.

I am focusing on Underwood 200 hard cast in the two pistols, trying to get some higher round count to assess reliability, since it is available, relatively inexpensive by boutique load standards, and penetrates phenomenally well. Today, I shot 20 rounds of hard cast in both the FN and Glock without issue.

Here are my numbers to date.

Glock
185 S&B
40 140 grain Underwood
72 200 grain Underwood
Total 292, 1 lock back with round in magazine with the S&B

FN
125 S&B
20 140 Underwood
60 200 Underwood
Total 205, 1 stovepipe S&B 3 mag drops before Dremeling right side

Here is one array with the Glock 20, the FN 510 and a Glock 19 for reference. I continue to shoot the G20 somewhat faster than the FN, but that difference may fall into noise, and reflects my greater experience shooting Glock pistols. If things continue on the reliability front, I could be quite happy with both pistols.

[Sensei]

I like the new HST 200gr (1100fps) load. Unless I'm away from civilization for days, I carry with a HST200 in the chamber and swap mags when I move between field and town. That way, I don't have to keep unloading/reloading. I figure the 1st round against a bear would probably be a warning shot, and if not the HST200 is still decent.

I bought enough to last for a while when it first came out. I checked on Federal's site, and they are charging an insane $50 for 20. WTF? But using AmmoSeek located more reasonable prices of around $1.50/round.

I’ve ordered some 200 grain HST to try in my DW Specialist and Gen 4 G20. Should arrive tomorrow but it will be at least a week before my work schedule lightens enough to hit the range.

[cheby]

If things continue on the reliability front, I could be quite happy with both pistols.

Do you have any Gen 4 Glock 20 mags to try with this gun? If we believe that one of the possible reasons of the G20.4 issues was the weak mag spring, I am wondering if new Gen 5 mags are different? I guess the question is why exactly is Gen5 more reliable? Different recoil spring, mag spring? Slide?

[GJM]

Do you have any Gen 4 Glock 20 mags to try with this gun? If we believe that one of the possible reasons of the G20.4 issues was the weak mag spring, I am wondering if new Gen 5 mags are different? I guess the question is why exactly is Gen5 more reliable? Different recoil spring, mag spring? Slide?

I don't have any Gen 420 mags handy. This makes it look like the Gen 5 is heavier, presumably in the slide.

[JCN]

I don't have any Gen 420 mags handy. This makes it look like the Gen 5 is heavier, presumably in the slide.

@GJM do you have a postal scale and a caliper?

I could weigh and measure Gen 4 G20 against your Gen 5.

What’s interesting is that the pic you posted has the Gen 5 being a whiff lighter than the 4?!

It’s a little wider but is that because of the slide or the ambi safety?




We know the Gen 5 G22 has a heavier weight than the Gen 4 because of the slide and barrel.

This one… it’s a mystery!