USPSA Scoring

[JCN]

Good points. A few thoughts:

A properly designed Hit Factor stage can accomplish a similar thing. When the HF is low (2.x) that will heavily punish sloppy accuracy.

At the last IDPA match I shot, I was beat by a guy who scanned targets for hits outside the Down 0, and made them up--after most or all of the string/stage was over. That had never occurred to me, and was a total WTF moment for me. But a few seconds is a long time...

I actually had the thought of burst firing three shots on everything with PCC that wasn’t a dead center 0-0.

But eventually decided that reading books with my daughter was a better use of time than the IDPA match.

[ECK]

When it comes to the balancing act between speed and accuracy I’m a proponent of taking whatever time it is you need to make the shot (more time for a longer/harder shot, less if it is a relatively easy shot), but do everything else at warp speed.

Everything else being movement between positions, aggressively transitioning between targets, reloads, etc.

I’m shooting a lot of minor PF these days (CO division) so A’s and close C’s are what I am trying for on every stage. Sometimes I make up a C hit that I call, but only if I can do it quickly.

I tell new shooters: You can shoot all As but if it takes you forever and a day you’re not going to win. Conversely, you can shoot really really quickly but if you’re not getting decent hits you’re not going to win either. But the guy who does win this stage (and maybe the match) will likely be shooting a lot of As in as short a period of time possible.

Since we’re also kinda talking about IDPA on the side, I sometimes see guys in vests tip-toeing up to the next shooting position like they are trying to sneak up on the target while on the clock. Since there is a timer involved, I say F that and RUN like you mean it!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The idea of that was supposedly (haha), IDPA had some more 'realism'. On DA STREET or in DA HOUSE, you wouldn't run full blast up to a shooting position in the open. That's the way to get shot dead. With time being the fetish, it is obviously counter productive for game score. The debate about 'cover' calls was a symptom of the game vs. an attempt at 'realism'.

I recall in an IDPA match a dude running full speed down a pathway and falling flat on his face. Seen that in USPSA too. FLAT on DA STREET - probably not good for you.

However, by now attempts at realism in either genre is stupid. Get what you want out of the shooting experience, be it game winning or just practice hitting a target at reasonable speed and accuracy with maybe some realistic emphasis. Our older folks, like moi, don't worry about the run time that much.

[jrobinson]

Thank you everyone!! I think I got the jist of it and will check out the video as well, So in suuuper lamens terms. If the stage seems like it should be quick to get through, then time is probably a bigger factor, but if the stage is more involved, odds are targets are more important.

But really, I just need to learn about it a bit more.

Thank you everyone!

[Clusterfrack]

Thank you everyone!! I think I got the jist of it and will check out the video as well, So in suuuper lamens terms. If the stage seems like it should be quick to get through, then time is probably a bigger factor, but if the stage is more involved, odds are targets are more important.

But really, I just need to learn about it a bit more.

Thank you everyone!

Sort of. Short or long stages can have high or low HFs, so what you wrote isn't quite right.

If there is a lot of stuff you need to do that's NOT shooting, the HF will be lower. Usually that means long movements between targets. If HF is low (<5) you need to shoot a very high proportion of Alphas to be competitive. A's are more important shooting Minor than Major.

Even if the HF is very high, there are very few stages that you can shoot Deltas, Mikes, or No-Shoots on and still be competitive. Again, that's especially true for Minor power factor.

However, trying to guarantee A's and no misses takes too much time to be competitive.

[Sal Picante]

However, by now attempts at realism in either genre is stupid. Get what you want out of the shooting experience, be it game winning or just practice hitting a target at reasonable speed and accuracy with maybe some realistic emphasis. Our older folks, like moi, don't worry about the run time that much.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head...

If we're adding "realism", don't turn it into a "sport" or a "game" and accept that subjectivity in "who won" and exploration of approach/skills are so much more important outcomes. Especially in this day and age of UTM/SIMS/airsoft/ECQC/FoF we can learn so much more about "real engagements". Folks like @SouthNarc, Ben Aubin and John Dufresne are doing so much to move the needle on that front.

I've really dig that that IDPA has revised the rules to make cover calls non-subjective and streamline the entire experience into a valid sport. The days of fishing vest dudes range-lawyering it up is pretty much done... Sure, there are still folks that didn't get the proverbial memo, but, then again, there is a big chunk of folks shooting USPSA that are in the same boat: Lemme know when you've RO'd the dude with all the accessories bolted onto his XD? Comp, racker, magwell, extendos.... Sigh. I did that last Monday...

[Sal Picante]

Alright @jrobinson, here's a test for you...

You're shooting a Hit Factor-scored match (outlaw USPSA) where you are a presented with a stage:

There are 3 paper target at 10 yards and 6 steel plates at 10 yards.
Somewhere, after your first shot and before your last shot you need to reload or incur a penalty (that's -10 points).

Do you reload or skip the reload? Explain your reasoning.

[jrobinson]

Alright @jrobinson, here's a test for you...

You're shooting a Hit Factor-scored match (outlaw USPSA) where you are a presented with a stage:

There are 3 paper target at 10 yards and 6 steel plates at 10 yards.
Somewhere, after your first shot and before your last shot you need to reload or incur a penalty (that's -10 points).

Do you reload or skip the reload? Explain your reasoning.

I didn't even think about not reloading and taking the penalty as an option! ummm.

[Sal Picante]

I didn't even think about not reloading and taking the penalty as an option! ummm.

Anyone want to do the math here?

[Clusterfrack]

Alright @jrobinson, here's a test for you...

You're shooting a Hit Factor-scored match (outlaw USPSA) where you are a presented with a stage:

There are 3 paper target at 10 yards and 6 steel plates at 10 yards.
Somewhere, after your first shot and before your last shot you need to reload or incur a penalty (that's -10 points).

Do you reload or skip the reload? Explain your reasoning.

Fun problem! This is going to make people think HF scoring is way too complicated... It's really not, and stuff like this isn't worth worrying about until you get to a fairly high level or you are a total geek.

Let's say:

3s for the Blake drill (3 paper)
1.25s reload to steel
1.25s for 5 remaining steel
Dropped a couple Charlies: 56pts
56pts/5.5s = 10.1HF

Skipping the reload:
3s for the Blake drill (3 paper)
1.5s for 6 steel
56 pts - 10 penalty = 46pts
46pts/6s = 10.2HF

With a 10HF, a 10 point penalty is equivalent to: 10pts / ( 10pts/s ) = 1s, so unless you can reload in under a 1s it's just barely not worth doing the reload (not reloading saves 1.25s - 0.25s = 1.0s)

However, if your times are:

4s for the Blake drill (3 paper)
1.5s reload to steel
1.5s for 5 remaining steel
Dropped a couple Charlies: 56pts
56pts/7s = 8HF

Skipping the reload:
4s for the Blake drill (3 paper)
1.8s for 6 steel
56 pts - 10 penalty = 46pts
46pts/5.8s = 7.93HF

With a 8HF, a 10 point penalty is equivalent to: 10pts / ( 8pts/s ) = 1.25s. Not doing the reload saves 1.5s - 0.3s = 1.2s, so it's just barely worth doing the reload.

However, the lowest risk approach is NOT doing the reload because that's one more thing that could go wrong.