N-frame question/issue?

[Evil_Ed]

A while ago I posted about my father's first duty gun, which he was nice enough to gift to me before he passed last year. After I got it home, I cleaned it and eventually made it to the range where I put I think maybe two cylinders of 130gr 38Spl through it and called it good. Took it home, cleaned it, put it away.

A couple of weeks ago I dug it back out; I wanted to see if it fit me as well as I remembered it doing, put some snap caps in the cylinder for some dry-fire practice, and...

I'd pull the trigger in DA mode, the hammer would go forward, but the cylinder would still turn. I could not thumb the hammer back. This was when the revolver was pointed down at the ground. I also couldn't open the cylinder latch.

If I pointed the revolver at the ceiling and tried again, I could then thumb the hammer back; I could also pull the trigger in a DA pull and it would function just fine. Cylinder would turn and hammer would come back as you'd expect.

Edited to add - honestly the orientation could have been the other way around (pointing up = no function, pointing down = function...I don't recall which way was which, but there was definitely one orientation where it worked as you'd expect and one orientation where it wouldn't)

I (very, very carefully) took off the sideplate, re-seated the sort of loose arm, added some lubricant as the insides had pretty clearly never been touched since the 1970s, very carefully buttoned it back up, and it seems ok...but, the inner workings of how these things function is a bit opaque to me.

Anyone have any idea of what could cause that? I somehow doubt that me just putting 12 rounds of mid-level Rem-UMC 38 ball would break anything, but...no idea. I didn't see any obviously broken, fractured, or otherwise unserviceable parts. I would hate to think that it was something kind of lurking there for decades, too...heaven forbid someone actually need the thing when it was a duty gun, and that happened.

[fatdog]

Sometimes the internals on a blued gun left sitting for years can freeze, not uncommon for a very small amount of internal rust say on the bolt, the center pin, cylinder stop, the hammer block to cause it to stick. Then you free it up and it works again. Your experience with the up and down may not have had a thing to do with up or down, just that you got a part moving again with the first or second attempt to cycle it. I have seen that several times with the cylinder latch freezing on older guns that have not been cycled in years. Then they are forcefully cycled a couple of times and the hang up goes away.

[Evil_Ed]

Oh, it was repeatable. Tilt it up and it worked, tilt it down and it didn't.

Edited - not saying something frozen couldn't be it, but when I took it out to the range and put two cylinders through it, it worked fine. You'd think that level of hammering would unfreeze anything; not cause it to freeze. Everything moved freely when I popped the sideplate off and manually fidgeted with things (well, a couple of things anyway)...so, I don't know.

[358156hp]

It kind of sounds like the hammer block was unseated and tying things up. I originally thought it might be the pawl, but I was being cixelsyd and reading what you were saying backwards. Is it working okay now?

[Catshooter]

Almost all oils turn to a varnish like substance after enough years. I've stripped fully Smiths before and soaked them in acetone for a couple days and that usually removes the old oil very well.

Sounds like two separate issues.

There is a small two legged spring that is almost completely concealed within the trigger that pushes the cylinder's hand into the ratchet lugs on the rear of the cylinder. When you cock the firearm, that hand pushes the cylinder from chamber to chamber as the trigger comes back. If that spring isn't doing it's job then with the muzzle down the cylinder will rotate. And not rotate with the muzzle up.

That "sort of loose arm" as you describe it is the hanmer block. It's supposed to be loose. There is a slot in the bottom that you can see with the side plate off. That slot fits over a tiny pin with a rounded top that is in the rebound spirng housing. When cocked, the housing moves to the rear, pulling the hammer block down. When the trigger moves forward, the housing pushes the block up so that it slides in between the hammer and the frame. That brings the firing pin's nose out of engagement with the primer in the cartridge.

Hopes that's a bit more clear than mud and helps you somewhat.

[fatdog]

There is a tiny spring and detent between the frame and bolt. If that got stuck and was not applying pressure the bolt could freely move positions with the up and down and tie things up, but thing is so would the cylinder latch (move with the up and down).

[willie]

I think cleaning the revolver removed crud. That plus the hammer block moving around. It's possible that your dad or an armorer had removed the side plate and did not get everything back in place "just right".

[Evil_Ed]

Almost all oils turn to a varnish like substance after enough years. I've stripped fully Smiths before and soaked them in acetone for a couple days and that usually removes the old oil very well.

Sounds like two separate issues.

There is a small two legged spring that is almost completely concealed within the trigger that pushes the cylinder's hand into the ratchet lugs on the rear of the cylinder. When you cock the firearm, that hand pushes the cylinder from chamber to chamber as the trigger comes back. If that spring isn't doing it's job then with the muzzle down the cylinder will rotate. And not rotate with the muzzle up.

That "sort of loose arm" as you describe it is the hanmer block. It's supposed to be loose. There is a slot in the bottom that you can see with the side plate off. That slot fits over a tiny pin with a rounded top that is in the rebound spirng housing. When cocked, the housing moves to the rear, pulling the hammer block down. When the trigger moves forward, the housing pushes the block up so that it slides in between the hammer and the frame. That brings the firing pin's nose out of engagement with the primer in the cartridge.

Hopes that's a bit more clear than mud and helps you somewhat.

Well, that was just it - the cylinder would rotate like normal, pointed up or down - pull the trigger, cylinder moves. What wouldn't happen, is the hammer wouldn't come back/cock - instead, it would actually dip in, move forward. I haven't really touched it since I dropped some oil in it...worst case there's a good gunsmith about 20 minutes away who takes walk-ins, that I'm sure I could drop it off with and get it back in a few weeks, if it comes down to it.

[JCN]

Well, that was just it - the cylinder would rotate like normal, pointed up or down - pull the trigger, cylinder moves. What wouldn't happen, is the hammer wouldn't come back/cock - instead, it would actually dip in, move forward. I haven't really touched it since I dropped some oil in it...worst case there's a good gunsmith about 20 minutes away who takes walk-ins, that I'm sure I could drop it off with and get it back in a few weeks, if it comes down to it.

Have you taken off the grips to see how the hammer spring and hammer strut is seated?

[358156hp]

Have you taken off the grips to see how the hammer spring and hammer strut is seated?

An excellent point. To expand on this point, the trigger rebound spring could have been replaced with one that's too light as part of a trigger "job".