Bullpups, good alternative to AR pistols?

[WobblyPossum]

Nm also only allows one concealed pistol from my understanding also.. so doesn't that mean the ar pistol is a no go if you are carrying something like a g19? Maybe I need a refresher.

This is honestly more for a transport perspective (small bag to store it in even if it is condition 4) as well as using it for my home. Short and can easily hold/fire it one handed if needed. More of a thought exercise right now since I'm so invested in ARs

You’re correct regarding the law limiting you to one concealed pistol at a time. You would be able to have a second pistol loaded in your car but I believe you would have to unload it if it leaves the car in a concealed manner. As far as I know there is no legal avenue for carrying a loaded rifle concealed at all. A rifle carried openly can be loaded but a rifle carried concealed cannot based on my reading of the statutes.

If you’d only be transporting the gun to have it at your final destination and it doesn’t matter if it’s ready to use, why not just separate the upper and lower of an AR? It would then fit in a fairly small bag.

[Rex G]

I love the Steyr AUG, I have three of them. One original preban with a 20 inch barrel, One of the Sabre Defense ones set up with a older Leupold 1.5-5 LVPO and SF light, and the third with a Aimpoint T1 and SF light. They solve a lot of the long gun in a short package problems that you can run up against. I'm left handed so I run left hand bolts in all of mine. AUG's also lend themselves to doing some tasks one handed or being run like a big pistol as well, stuff like opening doors, moving people... AUG's are my favorite fighting rifle after the AR15.

As for the loaded in the car problem set, I am predicting a run on braced equipped short shotguns loaded with slugs becoming a thing until the ATF gets around to them...

In principle, I adore the AUG, though I have only handled them dry, thus far. It took some time to stretch and massage my gimpy arm into compliance, this morning, so, a one-arm-friendly bullpup is making more and more sense. An LGS sells new AUGs, so, my bank account is never safe.

I reckon that braces on the Other not-a-shotgun Firearms will be BATFEman’s next target, though I never thought that I would EVER want to fire such a beast, anyway, as I figured out how to shoot stockless shotguns long ago, by the early Nineties, push-pull at full extension. (Not saying that I am trained-up, to do it smoothly, now.) A cheeked stockless shotgun seems MUCH more reasonable than cheeking an AR/M4-ish receiver extension!

[Caballoflaco]

Nm also only allows one concealed pistol from my understanding also.. so doesn't that mean the ar pistol is a no go if you are carrying something like a g19? Maybe I need a refresher.

This is honestly more for a transport perspective (small bag to store it in even if it is condition 4) as well as using it for my home. Short and can easily hold/fire it one handed if needed. More of a thought exercise right now since I'm so invested in ARs.

I can just get an AUG with the barrel removed in the same bag as I could fit an 11.5 AR with a folded law folder. The AUG is easier to assemble than a separated AR; but of course slower than the folder. And I’ll need to use a light mount that doesn’t add to the length of the AUG receiver.

[breakingtime91]

You’re correct regarding the law limiting you to one concealed pistol at a time. You would be able to have a second pistol loaded in your car but I believe you would have to unload it if it leaves the car in a concealed manner. As far as I know there is no legal avenue for carrying a loaded rifle concealed at all. A rifle carried openly can be loaded but a rifle carried concealed cannot based on my reading of the statutes.

If you’d only be transporting the gun to have it at your final destination and it doesn’t matter if it’s ready to use, why not just separate the upper and lower of an AR? It would then fit in a fairly small bag.

You make a lot of valid points. Ty sir

[Horseman]

I've had an AUG NATO-stock variant (takes AR-pattern mags) since about 2014. It's been my go-to gun for traveling, as it's an SBR-sized package, without the paperwork.

Downsides- The manual of arms is a bit different than the AR-pattern guns and takes some learning. The NATO-stock does not have a bolt release button, so empty-gun reloads require running the charging handle. The cross-bolt safety flummoxes some folks but can be easily trained. The edges of the safety are sharp, but a minute or two with a file takes care of that. As mentioned before, an empty-case deflector is a must or you will collect empties in your teeth when shooting support-side.

Upsides- An accurate, reliable rifle. Mine did not like steel-cased Russian, but handily digested everything else. With a 3.5 ACOG mounted, it can be counted on to hit C-zone steel at 300 yards until you are bored with it.

When shooters new to an AUG pick mine up for the first time, I usually instruct them to treat it like a big Glock pistol: The trigger is kind of similar (long take-up, distinct wall, audible click reset), if heavier, and bringing it in close and high to the upper body for manipulation on reloads and such helps mitigate the "magazine in the wrong place" feeling.

[Navin Johnson]

Shot a brace-less 11.5 pistol recently and was surprised how (It is NOT as shootable as a carbine) how shootable it was and how quick 2-3 shot bursts were. Seemed to suffer the most at long unsupported aimed shots. No sling, push pull, extension tucked-pressed into cheek neck area 1-4 LPVO.

[Clusterfrack]

I have a love-hate relationship with my Tavor SAR. It has a lot of mods: Geissele trigger pack, steel CH rod, thin buttpiece, extended handguard, sealed ejection port cover. The gun is super reliable, decently accurate, a great suppressor host, and I find it in some ways more ergonomic than an AR--especially with heavy gloves in cold weather.

The Tavor is compact--especially for a 16" rifle. But it's fucking heavy: 10+lbs with optic, light, and suppressor. Because of that, I almost always choose a SBR'd AR or my cheek pistol when I want something small and handy.

While the Tavor is accurate, it's not close to as accurate as my SPR Mk12-ish BCM/Noveske gun. I've done team sniper/carbine matches where I was the carbine shooter, and no way would I pick the Tavor over my SPR.

I am liking the Tavor for use with NODS though...

Yesterday I shot my Tavor at a local multigun match. It was the first time I've used it in competition, and I was curious about how it would compare to my ARs. I took 4th overall, and placed 1st on one rifle-heavy stage by a significant margin. While I probably would have done better with my 11.5" AR "gamer gun" just because of all the experience I have with the AR, I was very pleased with how the Tavor performed. It's a viable platform for competition. Here's my setup:

Geissele trigger pack
MI extended handguard
Magpul keymod VFG
MI ejection port cover
Manticore butt plate
SF Mini suppressor

[Default.mp3]

I am liking the Tavor for use with NODS though...

Why do you like it under NODs? AFAIK, most bullpups suffer from poor ergonomics for use with MFALs (though the programmable tape switch of the RAID Xe could help mitigate that issue).

[Clusterfrack]

Why do you like it under NODs? AFAIK, most bullpups suffer from poor ergonomics for use with MFALs (though the programmable tape switch of the RAID Xe could help mitigate that issue).

I’m using the little Steiner TOR mini and a Inforce white/IR light. No tape switches.

That setup works bilaterally, and I’m able to use passive aiming through the tube decently well.

Is it better than my Mk18 with a DBAL D2? Nope.

[fatdog]

If you can find a way to get just a little bit of trigger time with the different bullpup platforms, it may inform your decision significantly.

I personally disliked the ergos and "gas to the face" character of my AUG, Tavor TAR21, and Bushmaster M17, and eventually sent them all down the road. But they were all acceptably reliable and accurate. Strangely I get along well with the FN 2000 and PS90's on that ergos count. One of my close friends in our local shooting community owns them all including the new Springfield east euro import, and swears the Desertech thing is the best of all of the current bullpups from a shooting and handling perspective.

I think the bullpups are a category of gun where they are not all the same, and it is an individual thing on how it fits and what you like or can tolerate when it comes to shooting the thing.