Here is some info on the Sig Romeo M17. It was built for the M17 handgun and DOD. Not commercially available yet, but it has a lot of features that are interesting. The mounting system is specific to the M17 handgun, so that would have to change if they want to adapt it to other guns in the commercial space.
https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/2...red-dot-sight/
I agree with everything SoCalDep said. Great thread.
I've probably got a half dozen RMRs and I am really conflicted on them. I have one HWS model that I'll keep because it's on a 19X, but the others have slowly made their way from my favorite and most shot guns, to backups and spares. The heavy use guns all have Holosuns (and one Steiner).
I did end up with an RM07. I have not zeroed, or live fired it yet, but I have zero regrets. Concealment wise, the RMR's work well for me. I almost wish my other two 3.25 MOA models were 6.5's, after a bit of dryfire. We'll see if that impression holds. The dot is certainly more "round" to my eyes, compared to the 3.25's starbursting a bit on me and my astigmatism.Originally Posted by WDR
If the Holosun EPS 6 MOA models would have mounted directly to an RMR footprint, I'd have likely given one a try. I really didn't want to go back to using an adapter plate. The 508T was interesting, but no option for a 5-6 MOA dot. I did see a bunch of folks having issues with recent EPS optics in threads on reddit and elsewhere (weird distortion of the dot being a big one), that may have influenced my decision. They also reported customer service issues. I'm sure growth is a factor in both problems.
Next week when Glock comes out with Gen 6 factory milled and mounted pistol optics that beat the pants off of everything else... We'll start the arms race all over again.Or Trijicon comes out with RMR Type 3 with all the bells and whistles everyone has been asking for, and then my regret kicks in.
The RMR is still a great optic that has a lot going for it. It’s also probably the most common/easily accessed common optic with a larger dot. I was a fan of the larger dot for a while and an RM02 6.5MOA dot is what I “started with” (not counting the Tasco Optima 2000) back in 2017.I did end up with an RM07. I have not zeroed, or live fired it yet, but I have zero regrets. Concealment wise, the RMR's work well for me. I almost wish my other two 3.25 MOA models were 6.5's, after a bit of dryfire. We'll see if that impression holds. The dot is certainly more "round" to my eyes, compared to the 3.25's starbursting a bit on me and my astigmatism.
If the Holosun EPS 6 MOA models would have mounted directly to an RMR footprint, I'd have likely given one a try. I really didn't want to go back to using an adapter plate. The 508T was interesting, but no option for a 5-6 MOA dot. I did see a bunch of folks having issues with recent EPS optics in threads on reddit and elsewhere (weird distortion of the dot being a big one), that may have influenced my decision. They also reported customer service issues. I'm sure growth is a factor in both problems.
Next week when Glock comes out with Gen 6 factory milled and mounted pistol optics that beat the pants off of everything else... We'll start the arms race all over again.
I saw just a couple days ago on another forum someone asking what dot size to get and a bunch of people answering with their opinion. As Pat Rogers would say, that’s Clownshoes.
Everyone’s eyes are different. Giving your opinion to someone based on your eyes who doesn’t have your eyes is like telling someone who to be attracted to. It’s ignorant.
We can talk about what we’ve heard and what we’ve experienced to try to give people perspective, but I try to avoid saying “you need a big dot” or “you need a small dot”, especially for things like precision, speed, or distance. Those are constants. 10 yards is always 10 yards. A .20 split is what it is unless you’re so damn fast you go back in time.
Ultimately it’s what the individual prefers with their own vision. I had large dots for years. It got to the point they went on guns I didn’t shoot much... then a sims gun... then got traded. That’s not anyone but me, and my eyesight is messed up enough that I wouldn’t encourage anyone to make a decision based on what I prefer.
The RMR is, as you mentioned, a great optic for concealment, has lots of attributes, and is “the” optic for some serious dudes who do (not-basic) dude stuff. I just wish/hope Trijicon would engage like Maverick and come out with some more modern options. It’s like the original and main player is just sitting out the game.
I too, wish Trijicon would push out a little bit. They tend to make some really robust and useable optics, and I think they could put out something awesome, if they were willing to stretch a bit. Other companies have been much quicker to react to customer/consumer desires, demands, complaints and problems. Aimpoint seemed to go from P-1 to P-2 rather quickly, once initial battery life problems were noticed, for example.
I'd love to see something similar to the EPS, maybe that still used the RMR footprint (because I'm invested there), though it seems like the cross bolt Aimpoint type mount is really gaining a lot of traction with "hard use" crowds. It'll be interesting to see if/when Trijicon brings out the rumored "RMR Type 3" and what it ends up looking like, and what features they give us. A slightly taller/bigger window ala SRO, but retaining the RMR durability would be awesome. As would seeing something enclosed.
Totally agree on dot size/type being a personal thing. I bought into the "you can always bloom a 3.25 dot to appear bigger" line of thinking, and ended with with two RM06's, which I have been pretty happy with so far. The dots do "bloom" a bit with my very slight astigmatism, looking more like comets or star bursts sometimes, but I've been able to use them both at speed, and slow fire without issue. I really wanted to look through both sizes when I was setting up my first gun, but for whatever reason ( probably "covid") the 6.5 models were very sparse locally at the time, so I had to dive in, going straight to the 3.25. For whatever reason, the 6.5 dot appears more round to my eyes, using the auto-adjust setting, in various light. I have not tinkered with it enough to say the auto is better on this one, than my 3.25's, but the larger dot is a bit easier to pick up, even if its on a dimmer setting.
Holosuns circle/dot seem too "busy" for me, but I've only looked through them, not shot while using them. I had an EOtech on an AR for quite a while, and it wasn't as bad, but the circle was larger, the center dot smaller, and rifle/carbine cheekweld meant I wasn't really "hunting" for a dot, like you would with a pistol. I'm not sold on big circles as being useful, other than for speed on larger targets. I may eventually try one on a .22 pistol I've got in the works.
I'm 100% happy with my decision. Previous positive experiences with Trijicon/RMR played into that. Being less of a "mailbox" profile was important to me, as I'm a skinny dude without a ton of waist space to work with to avoid printing, and I've been satisfied with how I can conceal the shape of the RMR. Enclosed or not isn't a deal breaker for me, as these things live under my shirts/vests/jackets 99% of the time, though I do appreciate the idea that enclosed is probably a better mouse trap.
When I schedule my PMO and PMO instructor classes, I adjust day 1's hours so we can shoot with the dots in diminished, low light. A bit of flashlight work is included.
Whether the pistol has a light on it or not, I point in on a light colored wall and Illuminate the spot with a handheld or WML. I adjust the dot to where it is just visible over the light. I leave it there. The only exception being AZ in the summer.
Since this was about Auto Adjust ... No. An optic that can shoot from dark into light and a visa versa is needed. Unless a dual/tri sensor version is created, I wouldn't be interested.
Holosun's competition optic looks interesting, but I'll most likely look at the EPS/EPS-C to replace my existing open emitter holosuns.
I look forward to seeing what the C&H optics will or won't do, where they are from, etc. Without any existing history, it may take the brand a while to make inroads if they are reliable and capable.
Unless the innards are radically different, we already have a pretty good clue. The Lucid E7 and the C&H “Duty” appear to be the exact same externally (except for branding), and Lucid sources from China. The specific suppliers are a matter of public record, as this is information reported by CPB, including import quantities.
Both also have a remarkable similarity to the Swampfox “Kraken”, though that item has some external styling differences.
Both CHPWS and Lucid have announced similar timelines for availability of their respective closed emitter products.
Very well put.
Agreed. My eyes are weird. If I use a single dot, I see more of a coma or a starburst. But with the Holosun circle dot everything is crisp and sharp. Most people say it’s too much clutter but for me the circle/dot works!
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The EPS/EPS Carry offers so many potential advantages that I am interested in getting feedback from as many as possible to see how they are holding up in terms of durability, how long the battery last and generally are they working well.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
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