Boren in Given's Newsletter on RDS

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://d74722.p3cdn1.secureserver.n...Newsletter.pdf

I found the piece by Jeff Boren in Tom's newsletter to be very interesting but haven't seen any commentary here on it. The intricacies of RDS usage are laid out. Zeroing, keeping zero, of course finding the dot, mounting equipment variances, etc. are points in the piece. There's a difference between professional gun users and the civilian - of different levels of enthusiasm from high level trainees and competitors to casual SD types.

I thought the mounting discussion to be right on. Mounting and zeroing my SRO took a bit of effort from two folks - one - that guy and a gunsmith. I'm a klutz on such. I wonder why a standard rail like system with a throw switch rather than screws, plates and glue couldn't be a standard? But what do I know. To add a sight and have to buy a special, measuring screw driver - huh?

Still dry firing the heck out of the man cave with the gun. However, carry is still Trijicon night sights on a G26. Got too many med expenses to go for another set up. Sigh. I may be a heretic but I like the standard factory Glock sights on my G42 and a G4 G17. I can see the big dot. I had a B19 with some tritium fiber optics, but the front sight disappeared in a match and I let that system go. A match or two ago, another competitor had his front tube fall out.

[MVS]

https://d74722.p3cdn1.secureserver.n...Newsletter.pdf

I found the piece by Jeff Boren in Tom's newsletter to be very interesting but haven't seen any commentary here on it. The intricacies of RDS usage are laid out. Zeroing, keeping zero, of course finding the dot, mounting equipment variances, etc. are points in the piece. There's a difference between professional gun users and the civilian - of different levels of enthusiasm from high level trainees and competitors to casual SD types.

I thought the mounting discussion to be right on. Mounting and zeroing my SRO took a bit of effort from two folks - one - that guy and a gunsmith. I'm a klutz on such. I wonder why a standard rail like system with a throw switch rather than screws, plates and glue couldn't be a standard? But what do I know. To add a sight and have to buy a special, measuring screw driver - huh?

Still dry firing the heck out of the man cave with the gun. However, carry is still Trijicon night sights on a G26. Got too many med expenses to go for another set up. Sigh. I may be a heretic but I like the standard factory Glock sights on my G42 and a G4 G17. I can see the big dot. I had a B19 with some tritium fiber optics, but the front sight disappeared in a match and I let that system go. A match or two ago, another competitor had his front tube fall out.

You mean like mounting a scope on a rifle?
Anyway, I like RDS but do not think by any stretch they are required. As a matter of fact I still think irons should be for the "average" gun owner the standard. I have been EDC'ing a slide mounted optic since 2009, but I am not an evangelist for them.

I don't think I know the author which tells me how long I have been absent from the Rangemaster events as I feel like I used to know most of the instructors, though that group has grown exponentially in the last decade. Anyway, great article though I did not vibe with one thing. I fear he may be young as the stick-auto comparison was pretty much backwards from the way I would think about it. When I learned to drive the manual was still the norm and auto's weren't trusted to be reliable, of course I did start driving when I was 10 and lived on a farm so that probably slanted things a bit.

[GJM]

Lots of good information in that piece.

If I think back about my last ten years of shooting, a significant amount of my effort, learning and even frustration has been around my relationship and use of the red dot. While I consider iron sights now to be what in aviation we would refer to as an "abnormal" situation, I do believe most people would be better off relying on iron sights on their EDC pistols. Build knowledge and experience with the red dot, but be conservative relying on it too early in your journey. The exception to this would be a mentored situation, where someone selects the equipment, sets it up, teaches and tests you, and turn you loose only after you have reached defined milestones.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You mean like mounting a scope on a rifle?
Anyway, I like RDS but do not think by any stretch they are required. As a matter of fact I still think irons should be for the "average" gun owner the standard. I have been EDC'ing a slide mounted optic since 2009, but I am not an evangelist for them.

I don't think I know the author which tells me how long I have been absent from the Rangemaster events as I feel like I used to know most of the instructors, though that group has grown exponentially in the last decade. Anyway, great article though I did not vibe with one thing. I fear he may be young as the stick-auto comparison was pretty much backwards from the way I would think about it. When I learned to drive the manual was still the norm and auto's weren't trusted to be reliable, of course I did start driving when I was 10 and lived on a farm so that probably slanted things a bit.

Yeah, I think a standard interface would be a good thing for the everyday folk. Whether a RDS is for everday folk is another nuance. I'm not buying a new gun but would I get a Gen 5 G26 with one of the smaller RDS - I can't say.

My AR and Ruger PCC had standard rails without the nuances of handgun RDS mounts.

As far as the side issue of stick. I drove it through the life times of three cars. My awful knees switched me to automatic. I do recall my daughter laughing at me as I tried to get out of a parking space on a steep Portland, OR hill with a stick Civic (not smashing the car in back of me).

I don't do Rangemaster anymore or travel much as I have a care taker role. Such is age. Nor do I do any strenuous training as I can't risk a layup in mobility, etc.

[SCCY Marshal]

...Whether a RDS is for everday folk is another nuance...

I'd say that rather than being a nuanced topic that it flat-out isn't for the masses. They already don't carry guns and making the things bigger, heavier, and more fiddly isn't going to get more people on board. Given the amount of dead batteries I find in people's flashlights, weaponlights, and rifle optics, these won't be treated better. I'm one of very few freaks I l know who puts handguns on paper at all, much less checking for POA/POI relationship with various loads. Normal people won't do that on an optic which has never been so much as factory regulated to be reasonably close and will be like the average rifle shooter who chases his tail in embarassment when the misses start in a gun that was never properly zeroed and is now being loaded with completely different ammo than the last range trip. The people who look at their gun in utter confusion when it has a stoppage will now have the exciting new experiences of washed out, ghosted, dirty, dead dots and not think to use the irons.

Dots are not a simple path to program compliance. If it isn't simple, it won't be done in the big picture.

[Totem Polar]

Very interesting article, Glenn. Thanks for posting the reminder.

[YVK]

Was anybody else left with an impression that an article that lists all the "what's wrongs" with the dots for masses would've delivered better if it didn't end on "I won a turbo pin in Gabe's class" using one?

[MVS]

Was anybody else left with an impression that an article that lists all the "what's wrongs" with the dots for masses would've delivered better if it didn't end on "I won a turbo pin in Gabe's class" using one?

I am sure someone else was, but it didn't bother me. He used it to enhance the point if you aren't putting in the work it might not be what's best for you. I can't tell you how many matches I have shot where the sun messed with someone's ability to shoot a stage well. Along your line of thinking though, it would be interesting to know if he shoots Turbo without a dot. Of course by the time you are going to one of Gabe's classes you are already not one of the "masses".

[YVK]

I am sure someone else was, but it didn't bother me. He used it to enhance the point if you aren't putting in the work it might not be what's best for you. I can't tell you how many matches I have shot where the sun messed with someone's ability to shoot a stage well. Along your line of thinking though, it would be interesting to know if he shoots Turbo without a dot.

Low sun is a problem. I am hopeful that this will be resolved with time. @GJM tells me that SIG figured it out on a couple of their optics.

The "not putting the work" part isn't that straightforward for me.

[RJ]

I thought it was a good article. Certainly it enumerated many of the steps of discovery one makes on their dot journey. I had to learn about dots by doing, and asking dumb questions.

Dots certainly help a lot of us geezers (I'm 64) who can't see very well anymore. Obviously this is academic, until one is involved in a self defense shooting. Then shit gets real. But the odds that an actual earth person is involved in a .civ self defense shooting, *and* using a dot at the time? I dunno...must be small.

I kept a dot (EPS Carry MRS) as a means of shooting an optic from time to time, but mostly my shooting is split 50/50 dot/sight. I decided recently to sell the optic since the multi-reticle was bugging me, but I haven't bought another.

So at the moment, my carry P365X has irons, and my tinker / mess around with P365 Macro TACOPS Frankengun has irons. My 1911 and LCR, same. Which I'm ok with. And anyway I have some eye surgery coming up, so I probably won't have to worry about it for a while.