New rules

[Jim Watson]

Extension and Correction

The P320 Spectre Comp has a real muzzle compensator, removable and therefore not allowable.

BUT WAIT, the new 320 AXG Legion Comp has the same sort of slots in the slide nose as the 365 Macro and is therefore compliant. When I searched for a 320 comp, the Spectre was the only one in the catalog yet.

[MVS]

Extension and Correction

The P320 Spectre Comp has a real muzzle compensator, removable and therefore not allowable.

BUT WAIT, the new 320 AXG Legion Comp has the same sort of slots in the slide nose as the 365 Macro and is therefore compliant. When I searched for a 320 comp, the Spectre was the only one in the catalog yet.

I had to look that up myself. Not a huge fan of the 320 so I didn't know all of its permutations and I just assumed the Spectre Comp had the same type of comp as the Macro. Wrong.

[Mirolynmonbro]

. . . . At which point further changes and modification of the rules will be haphazardly distributed to area coordinators, where they will be subject to variable interpretation and enforcement.

I hope not. This comp and porting rule change seems very easily understood.

[Sal Picante]

I looked through all I could find on holsters. '8.5 Holsters' doesn't seem to have changed much but this line from 2022 is gone.
'8.5.1.12 A dropped and offset (DOH) holster with the butt of the firearm no lower than the top of the belt may be used. Concealment and cant angle rules apply.'
It has been replaced w/ this for 2023;
'8.5.1.12 All IDPA legal holsters must hold the butt of the firearm clearly above the top of the belt. Concealment and
cant angle rules apply.'
So that covers holster height and the new for 2023..
'8.5.1.13 When viewed from the front, a holster may not extend away from the belt more than the width of a spare magazine tube or reload device (of the firearm being used) or cause the firearm to tilt further than vertical, unless the shooter’s body touches the grip of firearm.
..covers offset amount so I see these changes as a good thing.

But the Preface paragraph to '8 Equipment Rules' is '8.1 Firearms General' that MVS quoted in post #3 is so vague as to be nearly un-understandable and unenforceable.
- IDPA, 'If you wouldn't carry it in public to defend yourself, you can't shoot or use it in a Defensive Pistol division for competition.'
--Me- I shoot a Beretta 92, but it is a full size gun and I carry an M&P compact. So now I can't shoot a 92 in idpa? I am pretty sure they don't mean that but....
- IDPA, '[1] Another criterion used to assess gear will be to ask how this would appear to patrons in a local shopping mall or supermarket in regions where open carry is not permitted. If you can conceal your pistol holster with a light windbreaker and comfortably draw your pistol while seated in an automobile with bucket seats, your holster is probably okay. [2] -- Reference: [1] & [2] IDPA Official Rulebook 10-26-96'.
--Me- Who is going to decide 'how this would appear to patrons'? Also, even my compact is a pain to deal with in our 15 Mustang or in our 19 Stingray. The 92 I never even try in those cars. In our Honda Pilot the compact is fine but I usually pull the 92 from the holster and put it in the center console. So to me all this is very subjective is going to be decided by one person who could be having a bad day. And what is this reference to 'IDPA Official Rulebook 10-26-96'. An official rulebook from 27 years ago?
- IDPA, 'Equipment Guidelines: Gear permitted for Defensive Pistol competition must be specifically designed for everyday carry (NOT for range or competition use)...'
--Me- Who will, and how will, he/she decide if something was 'specifically designed for everyday carry...'?
I see their intent, and applaud it, but am concerned about how the new rules will be administered. For those of you who have been shooting idpa longer than I, how have Qs on equipment been decided in the past. Does one get told about it, but allowed to shoot today w/ a warning not to show up with it next match? Or does one get sent home if it can't be fixed right now?

... and don't forget that AIWB isn't allowed at certain ranges/clubs, even though it passes pretty much all of those criteria.

[CraigS]

More looking at this rule;
'8.5.1.13 When viewed from the front, a holster may not extend away from the belt more than the width of a spare magazine tube or reload device (of the firearm being used) or cause the firearm to tilt further than vertical, unless the shooter’s body touches the grip of firearm.'
The problem starts when the gun is lowered so it meets this rule.
'8.5.1.12 All IDPA legal holsters must hold the butt of the firearm clearly above the top of the belt'
That puts the grip (the top edge as it sits in the holster) just a little higher than the belt. Now the space that used to exist above the belt between the grip and one's body that allowed one to push the thumb down and get a good grip is filled in by stuff. So looking at a lot of different holsters, there are few that the belt is the outermost part closest to the gun. Most have the belt go through loops so the belt is next to the body and there are parts of the holster between the belt and the gun. Some holsters there is just a layer of kydex (1/8 inch or less) between belt and gun, some have a 3/16 to 1/4inch of molded plastic that screws go through into another 3/16 to 1/4 inch of plastic that is part of the holster body w/ the metal pieces for the screws to engage molded in. So we have at least 3/8 inch of plastic between belt and gun. And some have a quick release setup that adds a bunch more plastic between belt and gun. If a mag is 5/8 inch (picked a # for discussion) thick, that 3/8 inch of plastic leaves just 1/4 inch to get my thumb in. I played around for about 3 hours this afternoon screwing together a lot of different combinations of holster and holster mount parts and some pieces of kydex. So how is this 'width of a spare magazine tube' measured? BTW I am fully aware that I can raise the gun so the entire grip is above the belt and have plenty of room for my thumb. But I really like the drop and, if they allow it, I want to use it.

[JSGlock34]

Would this then permit something like the Staccato XC in CO? I seem to recall the barrel and comp are a singe piece, not an attachment.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Would this then permit something like the Staccato XC in CO? I seem to recall the barrel and comp are a singe piece, not an attachment.

It should. I think an area coordinator already approved it

[MVS]

Would this then permit something like the Staccato XC in CO? I seem to recall the barrel and comp are a singe piece, not an attachment.

It's somewhat laughable given 8.1, but yes. I saw where Matt Little said this is what he will be using.

[paraframe]

"8.5.1.13 When viewed from the front, a holster may not extend away from the belt more than the width of a spare magazine tube or reload device (of the firearm being used) or cause the firearm to tilt further than vertical, unless the shooter’s body touches the grip of firearm."

So if I am shooting my N frame, I can mount the revolver nearly 2" away from my side as that's the width of the speed loaders?

This rule seems to encourage people to compete with thicker pistols, after all, why carry a 365 or a 43x if you are going to be held to a stricter equipment standard than if you carried a 21 or a 2011?

[chances R]

So does this mean the M&P competitor isn't allowed from the start because of its name!?!