Large bore fixed sighted gun

**03RN** · 01-20-2023, 08:25 PM

I've seen it mentioned before. What's the shaved .455 all about? Is it to allow moon clips? Does it weaken the gun?

If you could find a deal on a British .455 would it be worth it for a shooter gun? Is the cylinder to short for .45 colt?

**Outpost75** · 01-20-2023, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by 03RN

I've seen it mentioned before. What's the shaved .455 all about? Is it to allow moon clips? Does it weaken the gun?

If you could find a deal on a British .455 would it be worth it for a shooter gun? Is the cylinder to short for .45 colt?

When many .455 revolvers were imported into the US after WW2 US manufacturers were not producing .455 ammo, so about 0.06" was faced off the rear of the cylinder to permit using .45 Auto Rim or .45 ACP with moon clips. The Auto Rim case has a .090" thick rim which approximated the head clearance needed to chamber and having sufficient head clearance for cylinder rotation when .45 ACPammunition is inserted in the moon clip. The .455 rim is only 0.039" thick.

Pressure of the .45 AR was established at 14,000 cup max, same as the .45 Colr, in deference to the shaved Webleys. Typical revolver velocity is about 800 fps from a 5-inch barrel and is approximated closely with. #452374 and 4.5 grains of Bullseye or 5 grains of Unique. Full charge .45 ACP 230-grain FMU runs 18-20,000 cup, which exceeds proof pressure for the .455 cartridge. USGI ball is fine in the US M1917 Colt and S&W revolvers, but not in the Brit top breaks if you want them to last. Even in WW2 rebuilds with heat treated cylinder you may shear the barrel catch screw. In guns without heat treated cylinders it is common to burst the cylinder with WW2 military ball ammo.

Webleys which went through rebuild for WW2 service were generally refitted with heat treated cylinders for use with Mk6 Cordite ammunition producing 625+/-30 fps from a 5-inch barrel at pressures not exceeding 13,700 LUP. The pre-WW1 era guns were generally not rebuilt for WW2. The Boer War Mk4 was the first Webley proved for use with Cordite and a great many went Factory Through Repair for WW2 service and were recylindered and reproved. Earlier marks pre-1898 were proved for black powder only and smokeless loads should not exceed 12,000 psi.

The top-break Webleys cylinders are too short for .45 Colt. The S&W .455 Hand Ejecfors and Colt New Service in .455 Eley can be successfully rechambered to .45 Colt at the expense of greatly reducing their collector value. A factory-lettered Colt New Service or S&W .455 Triple Lock in VG original condition and unaltered in its original .455 Eley chambering will bring $1100-1350 at auction. The same gun rechambered to .45 Colt will bring only $750-900 as a " shooter."

Take a handful of new factory unprimed .45 ACP brass to the gun show with you and see if the ACP Rim only stands a bit proud, rather than falling deeper into the chambers. You may get lucky. Otherwise get Starline .455 brass and learn to love your classic British blaster.

**03RN** · 01-20-2023, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Outpost75

When many .455 revolvers were imported into the US after WW2 US manufacturers were not producing .455 ammo, so about 0.06" was faced off the rear of the cylinder to permit using .45 Auto Rim or .45 ACPvwith moon clips.

The Auto Rim case has. .090" thick rim which approximates the head clearance needed to chamber .45 ACP inserted in the moon clip. The .455 rim is only 0.039".

Pressure on the .45 AR was established at 14,000 cup max in deference to the shaved Webleys. Full charge .45 ACP runs 18-20,000 cup and exceeds proof pressure for the .455 cartridge. USGI ball is fine in the US M1917 Colt and S&W revolvers, but not the Brit top breaks if you want them to last.

Webleys which went through rebuild for WW2 service were refitted with heat treated cylinder. The WW1 era guns were not. The Boer War Mk4 was the first Webley proved for use with Cordite. Earlier marks pre-1898 were proved for black powder only and smokeless loads should not exceed 12,000 psi.

Ok, good to know. Thank you

**Crazy Dane** · 01-20-2023, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Outpost75

When many .455 revolvers were imported into the US after WW2 US manufacturers were not producing .455 ammo, so about 0.06" was faced off the rear of the cylinder to permit using .45 Auto Rim or .45 ACP with moon clips. The Auto Rim case has a .090" thick rim which approximated the head clearance needed to chamber and having sufficient head clearance for cylinder rotation when .45 ACPammunition is inserted in the moon clip. The .455 rim is only 0.039" thick.

Pressure of the .45 AR was established at 14,000 cup max, same as the .45 Colr, in deference to the shaved Webleys. Typical revolver velocity is about 800 fps from a 5-inch barrel and is approximated closely with. #452374 and 4.5 grains of Bullseye or 5 grains of Unique. Full charge .45 ACP 230-grain FMU runs 18-20,000 cup, which exceeds proof pressure for the .455 cartridge. USGI ball is fine in the US M1917 Colt and S&W revolvers, but not in the Brit top breaks if you want them to last. Even in WW2 rebuilds with heat treated cylinder you may shear the barrel catch screw. In guns without heat treated cylinders it is common to burst the cylinder with WW2 military ball ammo.

Webleys which went through rebuild for WW2 service were generally refitted with heat treated cylinders for use with Mk6 Cordite ammunition producing 625+/-30 fps from a 5-inch barrel at pressures not exceeding 13,700 LUP. The pre-WW1 era guns were generally not rebuilt for WW2. The Boer War Mk4 was the first Webley proved for use with Cordite and a great many went Factory Through Repair for WW2 service and were recylindered and reproved. Earlier marks pre-1898 were proved for black powder only and smokeless loads should not exceed 12,000 psi.

The top-break Webleys cylinders are too short for .45 Colt. The S&W .455 Hand Ejecfors and Colt New Service in .455 Eley can be successfully rechambered to .45 Colt at the expense of greatly reducing their collector value. A factory-lettered Colt New Service or S&W .455 Triple Lock in VG original condition and unaltered in its original .455 Eley chambering will bring $1100-1350 at auction. The same gun rechambered to .45 Colt will bring only $750-900 as a " shooter."

Take a handful of new factory unprimed .45 ACP brass to the gun show with you and see if the ACP Rim only stands a bit proud, rather than falling deeper into the chambers. You may get lucky. Otherwise get Starline .455 brass and learn to love your classic British blaster.

Originally Posted by Outpost75

Range report on my 2-3/4" Colt New Service .455

.45 ACP military ball headspaces on the chamber cone without a clip. Cylinder is original .455 Eley and has NOT been shaved. Use a BIC pen to poke out the ACP empties.

Speer 250-grain Deep Curl JHP with 4 grains of Bullseye in Starline brass expands well in water jugs. Stops in 4th gallon jug. Good penetration at 650 fps. This load is too hot for the top-break Webleys, but fine in the New Service.

I learn something most every time you post and I have to ask, Did you have a spot of tea while shooting a revolver that utilizes a section of water pipe for a barrel?

I would like to find an unusual piece like that one day just t to have fun with.

**Outpost75** · 01-20-2023, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Dane

I learn something most every time you post and I have to ask, Did you have a spot of tea while shooting a revolver that utilizes a section of water pipe for a barrel?

I would like to find an unusual piece like that one day just t to have fun with.

Aye Matey, I did and had a lard sandwich on coarse whitebread, seasoned with Madras curry powder, and slice of onion for lunch.

I waited until I got home for the hot toddy.

Sung to the tune of Col. Bogie's March....

Hitler, he only had one ball.
Goring had two, but his were small.
Himmler, had something similar,
But Herr Gobbels had no balls at all...

A little powder, a lotta lead, shoot'em once and they'll be dead....