Yes: We use duty ammo for quals
No: We use practice ammo for quals
Mixed (sometimes yes, sometimes no)
Two quals annually - large fed agency. Will typically qual with contract FMJ (that more or less mimics the recoil of duty ammo). Will occasionally burn the previously carried ammo for the qual. Sometimes the carried ammo gets burned with drills - depends on the whim of the instructor. New duty ammo is issued at each qual.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
No one is coming. It is up to us.
I retired in 2021, we were shooting the duty ammo once a year during qualification and issuing fresh duty ammo as they left the range. I’m now doing some part time work including firearms training for one of the courts here. I suggested doing the same. They didn’t know how old their duty ammo was as they had been qualifying with ball.
The chambered round in the chief bailiff’s pistol went “click” instead of “bang” so I’m not being questioned about shooting it up annually anymore.
As of the end of 2021, we were MOSTLY shooting JHP (duty) for quals for those still carrying .40 S&W, and MOSTLY shooting FMJ (training) for 9mm shooters. As the agency continues it's return to 9mm, I expect they'll get to all quals and training being shot with FMJ, saving "duty" ammo for carry only.
On a side note, right up to the day of my retirement, this was one of the issues I railed against the hardest in our firearms instructor's cabal, since our 9mm duty load was 147gr JHP (A260L), and our then practice ammo was 124gr FMJ NATO load (M882). The differences in recoil and POA/POI might be minor, but, FFS, how hard is it to procure duty and training ammo that are at least similar in ballistics and recoil?
Of course, I had another FI at an Automatic Weapons Operator Course tell me I was "worrying about nothing" over the fact that we were having the new shooters zero with M193 (55gr FMJ) but our duty ammo was AB49 (62gr JHP). Sigh. Luckily, neither my monkeys nor my circus anymore.
My old agency quals with duty ammo twice a year, new service ammo is issued after every qual..
No. Up until last year, the indoor range that 85%+ of the office shot on was frangible only - going back twenty years. It is now a 'live' ammo range again and during the six months, we've shot practice ball ammo there.
Agency I retired from was getting better about shooting up the old duty load but for several years, we shot FMJ for quals.
Current employer is tied to a .gov LE agency and we qual with duty loads.
Regards.
Larger fed agency here. We qualify four times a year. We have duty ammunition (124gr +p Gold Dot) and practice ammunition (115gr Winchester FMJ). Some of the guidance I’ve seen from our national firearms unit has been conflicting or confusing with regards to what to use. The policy reads to me that we should be shooting all qualifications with the duty ammo and the training ammo is for actual training. Some of what I’ve seen come from the firearms people is that we should be primarily shooting the training ammo. What I do with my small office is mandate that anyone who has had the same duty ammo in their guns for the last six months has to shoot the duty ammo and get a fresh load out. Anyone else (the people who got fresh duty ammo the previous quarter) can do what they want. If they want to shoot their duty ammo, they can and I’ll give them new duty ammo. If they want to swap out for the practice ammo and shoot that before reloading with their same duty ammo, they can. I’ve heard from another instructor that a buddy of his only orders duty ammo from the national firearms people. He doesn’t order the FMJ ammo at all and all his people shoot duty ammo for quals and for training. Apparently no one has said anything to him about it yet.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Same. 3 quals with FMJ then 1 with duty ammo over a 24 month period.Originally Posted by Lon
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Semi related, back when we issued .40, FLETC which hosts our Academy, tried to go 100% lead free on all ranges. We identified two issues with the lead free ammo one of which resulted in one outdoor range being permanently reserved for standard lead ammunition.
The first was many new agents were having extractor issues their first year out of the Academy. The fix was to replace all extractors in their P229Rs before graduation.
The second issue was new agents who “qualified” in the academy using lighter recoiling lead free frangible and then had difficulty qualifying in the field using duty ammo.
We started having them shoot at least one qual with duty ammo before graduation. Not sure if this is still an issue now that we’ve gone to 9mm. @Gadfly might have more current info.
We have people, both shooters and Instructors who turn their noses up at the training ammo and refuse to use it. Some think it will damage their guns. The only real issue is it’s rather dirty so I suspect they simply don’t want to have to clean their guns.
The only exception to this is the SIG MPXs. I strongly recommend our people only shoot duty ammo in the MPXs due to gas piston fouling issues..
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