WTF? (why the frame?)- Slide mounted levers vs. frame mounted levers

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have found many advantages to having slide mounted safety/decocker levers and some obstacles in using frame mounted levers.

While there may be some designs that have had problems (such as early M9s, Beretta model 92s) such as accidental activation of the safety during racking, even current models have a better lever angle now.

Obviously, I have extensive experience with the PX4 line which has excellent levers and 6 options of lever configurations (not to mention mix & match). Stock PX4s have levers designed for gloved winter or harsh condition activation, but most folks now run G model (decock only) with smaller, less sharp levers.

Advantages of a slide mounted decocker/safety? Firstly, mechanically an accidental discharge by decocking becomes impossible. The same metal lever shaft that decocks cannot do so until it physically moves the firing pin plunger out of the way. The hammer will also hit the back of the slide, not a catch or stop, nor the sear.

Secondly, I do not have to alter my full shooting grip with either hand on either side to decock or run a safety, if applicable.

Since this does not show that frame mounted safeties are less safe... that is not my point.

When shooting I find certain obstacles that I don't think "need" to be there.

Slide mounted decockers (like Beretta's) are ambidextrous. Some frame mounted levers are also, but at a different cost.

When decocking or coming off safe with frame mounted ambidextrous levers the other side hits your other hand and you must loosen your grip to accommodate. You must also loosen your grip to lower the lever you are using.

Grip is my main gripe. I like to run my thumbs high, almost up to the slide. So, one must go on top of the levers and risk decocking during recoil... On the levers and risk wearing out your thumbs or under the levers, which makes for a lower grip more below bore axis.

With grip mounted decockers, like a traditional Sig- I find I must release my grip with the support hand to decock and find no easy solution if firing lefty.

While necessity is the mother of invention and techniques can be developed for any type of manual of arms... I find that slide mounted levers (when done right) are better for me. Yet there are so many strong feelings and views against slide mounted levers that I thought this would be worth discussing.

[Evil_Ed]

If you're decocking, you're not actively aiming or readying the weapon...IMO grip isn't a huge, huge deal at that point. But I'm not an LE pro or anything...just my opinion.

As far as Sigs and lefties - hold the gun in your left hand, as you would when shooting.

Now, remove your right/support hand and hold it to the side of the gun
Rotate the gun clockwise, so the top of the slide/top of the ejection port is now facing your right hand
Using a finger on your right hand (thumb, index, middle, whatever), come across the gun and push in the decock lever...that should do it. It'll take some practice to get it fluidly, but lefties can maintain their firing grip when decocking a Sig

[BN]

The first years of my serious shooting were done with 1911s while thumbing down the safety. I rode the safety with my thumb while shooting.

Any gun with a frame mounted decocker is going to be thumbed down and strange things happen. There quite a few pistols that I can't shoot because of that.

[JCN]

I like frame mounted safeties.

They help my grip.

I’m not a fan of slide mounted controls.

They negatively affect my grip and shooting.

[gc70]

Some people have difficulty reaching slide-mounted controls without shifting their grip, while others experience similar difficulties with frame-mounted controls (1911-style or SIG).

There is no generic "best" type or location of controls, only what works best for each individual.

As to the question of WTF - my thumb is too short to comfortably operate slide-mounted levers or SIG-type decockers without shifting my grip. However, my physical operating deficiency does not prevent me from owning and using guns with those controls because I don't experience or foresee the need to manipulate those controls when there is an imminent need to fire again. Nevertheless, frame-mounted controls can be more conveniently located for me.

[TheNewbie]

The P-07 decocker is about perfect for me, and while I do have to break my grip to use it, I find that to be a non issue. The Sig decocker is not as user friendly, and I would much prefer the 92 series to the Sig decocker. A 92 with a safety/decocker set up, might be as safe as a gun can get for carry.


If Beretta made a frame mounted safety/decocker that worked like the on the Beretta 84, or even Bersa TPR, that would be something I would be very interested in.

[OfficeCat]

Some people have difficulty reaching slide-mounted controls without shifting their grip, while others experience similar difficulties with frame-mounted controls (1911-style or SIG).

There is no generic "best" type or location of controls, only what works best for each individual.

As to the question of WTF - my thumb is too short to comfortably operate slide-mounted levers or SIG-type decockers without shifting my grip. However, my physical operating deficiency does not prevent me from owning and using guns with those controls because I don't experience or foresee the need to manipulate those controls when there is an imminent need to fire again. Nevertheless, frame-mounted controls can be more conveniently located for me.

Me too. Short thumbs are probably the greatest physical obstacle I struggle with when shooting.

[Sig_Fiend]

Slide-mounted safeties compromise support hand grip for manipulations. Yes, there are techniques to deal with this but, it is a factor.

Also, it adds more parts to the slide and reduced margin for red dots. For future platforms, I foresee slides becoming simpler and with internals designed to allow RDS mounting more easily and as low as possible.

For decocker-only, I find there is entirely too much ceremony involved in some of the designs out there. Classic SIGs and Beretta 92Gs aren't exactly difficult but, easier is possible. Ultimately, the point is simply to put the gun in a decocked/half cock state that is safer.

Something like the HK P2000 and P30 series decocker "button" is a great example of how simple that function should be IMO. Nothing impeding grip anywhere. No added components or complexity. Just a simple button that you can still reach with your gun hand thumb in a reasonable manner. You can also shift from decocking to pinning the hammer for reholstering with minimal movement.

The Walther P99 AS decocker, although requiring a little more effort to use, was another novel take at the button concept.

[JAD]

I ride the safety, and never (ever) have issues deactivating the safety. I use the safety as a ‘people management’ tool, and it works for me.

If the safety is mounted on the slide I forget to deactivate it.

I do not like frame mounted decockers— Classic SIG excepted because of their very long travel, which I don’t love. The only decocker I really like is the P30’s, which is unfortunately coupled with an unusable trigger.

[mcgivro]

Yet there are so many strong feelings and views against slide mounted levers

Where?