Thought exercise -- EDC/field/training pistol for you and 50 friends

[GJM]

Well, I didn't give away 50, but my wife and I, for Christmas gifted a good friend one of our extra Gen 4 Glock 19 pistols, a 507C, CHPWS BUIS, a Mastermind AIWB and a box of Gold Dot 124+P. He didn't have a Glock, and we didn't think we could consider another shooter a good friend if he didn't have a Glock.

Today was the first time we were all together, and he was able to shoot it after a local USPSA match. I had zeroed it at 25 yards with Gold Dot prior to today. For reference, he is a strong M class CO shooter, shoots a Legion, and has carried a P2000SK .40 or P30L 9mm with a GGI trigger. We started at 20 yards, and I shot the pistol first, putting three rounds in the upper A, in about a two inch group and inch right of center. His shots were all low left on the head. I told him to try more finger and that helped, but his shots were still a few inches left. We asked my wife to shoot it, and her shots were right with mine. We shot some more, but ultimately went one click up and three right. At that point, he was slightly left of center, and the gun shot right of center for my wife and I.

I spent an hour transferring as much Glock info to him as I thought he could absorb (draw, holster, take down, cleaning and lubrication, downloading mags one, don't screw with the OEM parts!) I also let him shoot one G5 19 of mine with a Mayhem and another G5 19 with an EPS. Interestingly, he preferred the G5 trigger with the dot connector. He left carrying the G19 with a spare mag of Gold Dot in his front pocket, so I think we brought him into the fold. My guess is he would have shot a 365 Macro better -- the Glock takes some work, even for a good shooter!

[psalms144.1]

Anyone who knows me knows I have an absolute love/hate relationship with Glocks. IMHO, there's nothing easier to shoot quickly on moderately generous targets. They're generally reliable, Gen5s are very mechanically accurate, and they're dead nuts simple to maintain/repair should such repairs be necessary.

On the other hand, I own no other handgun that's HARDER to run fast on discreet targets, that's more sensitive to grip/trigger finger placement, etc, than the GLOCK. When I did a recent head-to-head with the P07 and P365XL, I shot both of the alternatives measurably more accurately, with similar speed - but I was shooting relatively discreet targets at what most gun owners would consider a middle distance. Shooting full size IPSC steels at 100 yards is an exercise in wasting ammo with the G19, but is do-able with either the XL or P07. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the need to pull the trigger to disassemble is a design flaw that has led to God only knows how many otherwise avoidable negligent discharges since GLOCK hit the market.

Having said all that, if I needed to train and equip a cadre of hand gunners in today's environment, I'd opt for the Gen5 G19, even with all of its warts. Direct milled with 509Ts and irons forward of the optic would be a plus, but not a necessity. TLR7s and JMCK holsters, and a crap ton of ammo for training.

You can always what if this into the realm of the absurd - what if some of those 50 folks are 70+ one-handed hobbits? What if this group had to operate on the surface of the sun?

Simple is nearly always better. I love me some round guns, but I've seen WAY more "non-shooters" struggle with revolver DA triggers than I have had to deal with low-left shooting Glock folks. And let's not get started on having to train folks to reload a revolver versus any semi...

[GJM]

I learned a decade or more ago, a Glock is easy to shoot OK with, and extremely hard to shoot great with. Interestingly, there are a number of very strong CO shooters in AZ, that started with a Glock, developed great fundamentals, and then transitioned to other platforms while applying Glock honed fundamentals and really moved up.

[TGS]

Anyone who knows me knows I have an absolute love/hate relationship with Glocks. IMHO, there's nothing easier to shoot quickly on moderately generous targets. They're generally reliable, Gen5s are very mechanically accurate, and they're dead nuts simple to maintain/repair should such repairs be necessary.

On the other hand, I own no other handgun that's HARDER to run fast on discreet targets, that's more sensitive to grip/trigger finger placement, etc, than the GLOCK. When I did a recent head-to-head with the P07 and P365XL, I shot both of the alternatives measurably more accurately, with similar speed - but I was shooting relatively discreet targets at what most gun owners would consider a middle distance. Shooting full size IPSC steels at 100 yards is an exercise in wasting ammo with the G19, but is do-able with either the XL or P07. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the need to pull the trigger to disassemble is a design flaw that has led to God only knows how many otherwise avoidable negligent discharges since GLOCK hit the market.

Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

The only other Glock 19 I have any significant time on is the Gen 3, but I never took that past 50. Results at 50 weren't great, but it was also about 115* Fahrenheit, with a minor case of diarrhea and healthy bit of sleep deprivation.

[Borderland]

Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

Crap. I could never shoot that well. But then I couldn't see a 100 yd target, or even a 50 for that matter, to shoot that well. That doesn't bother me because I know age catches up with everyone. If I can see it with a 4x scope I can hit it, even at 300. Sad but that is what's in store for almost everyone, sooner or later. With a pistol, 25 is all I'm interested in at my age. That I can still see.

I saw an old timer bullseye shooter punching a 50 yd target with a Gold Cup the other day. There's hope.

[psalms144.1]

Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

The only other Glock 19 I have any significant time on is the Gen 3, but I never took that past 50. Results at 50 weren't great, but it was also about 115* Fahrenheit, with a minor case of diarrhea and healthy bit of sleep deprivation.

I agree. 15 years ago, I was hitting a pepper popper at 100 12+ out of 15 with an issued G19. Those days are gone now, just don't have the grip strength anymore.

I'd still take 50 G19s as an arsenal for a small unit over 50 of anything else I can think of, because I don't think ringing those IPSC steels at 100 is as important as being able to put 3-4 fast hits into the A Zone out to 15 yards, for the average shooter. And I'd rather instruct folks through the GLOCK's nuances and shortfalls than deal with the issues of more "shootable" pistols, and sure as shooting would rather be the on-site armorer for 50 Glocks than pretty much anything else.