Rogers-Surefire Technique

[NH Shooter]

First, there is no one “go to” technique for handheld flashlights.

Agreed! The Low Light Pistol Operator course I took at the Sig Academy covered the most common techniques, including the advantages and disadvantages of each. For me the Harries provides only a minor benefit for increased stability, but still better than a true one hand hold. The Rogers-Surefire provides for a much more stable hold for when maximum precision is needed.

Even for one-hand shooting, I find a grip ring useful - it keeps the light from sliding forward in the hand;




The larger grip ring set up for use with the Rogers-Surefire works just as well for me for single hand use. Having a light so configured IMO provides greater flexibility, and being able to smoothly transition from one technique to another depending on the circumstances is a valuable skill set. That said, keeping the light and pistol independent of each other provides some major benefits at short engagement distances.

I appreciate everyone's engagement in this discussion!

[1Rangemaster]

@HCM - certainly agree there is no one way/technique. I have found myself on a couple of occasions drawing sidearm and light to a Harries. It's what I learned first years ago, so it was interesting to me I went to it under a little stress.
As @Erick Gelhaus pointed out, and I’ve seen and practiced, there are a lot of holds one can flow into and out with the “ice pick”. I could see-no pun intended-though if one had the foresight in a sense to set up in a Rogers it would useful moving down a hallway or aisle for example.
Thanks for the discussion, all; reminds me I need to put a session or few into some light handling practice-thanks!

[NH Shooter]

A lot of info I just marked where he mentions what we are talking about briefly. I no longer really practice any two handed low light shooting techniques.

MVS, thanks for the link! I think MS makes some great points in this video, especially in regards to the one-hand hold and being able to use the arm to block blows to the head. Shooting from retention in an arm's length entanglement is also something I have embraced and "wired-in." In fact, one of the reasons the PPS remains my preferred EDC is due to the fact there's not much for an assailant to grab hold of forward of the trigger guard. This article written 10 years ago by MS remains relevant to this day.

As a civilian, my use of light (with or without a firearm) is going to differ compared to a LEO. Where a LEO would go on "offense" in search and apprehension of a suspect, my goal is quite the opposite: to detect, evade and escape. While constant-on light operation is beneficial for a PO, it's more likely to be a detriment for the civilian who is looking to avoid encounters with criminals rather than tracking them down to make an arrest. I very much consider the use of light for a civilian to enhance their situational awareness in the typical low-light setting as my primary mission.

I remember when the Surefire/Rodgers technique came in after my first Gunsite trip. It is a viable way of getting both hands on the pistol (or shotgun even) while working a narrower light. I've got one of the 6Z's in my bin o' lights for reference and teaching. I think there are two reasons it isn't more commonly used/taught or has fallen out of favor.

The first is that some need a light modification to use the technique. While I can do it with an unmodified light, it isn't always doable. Once you cut rings off the 6Z, I don't recall there being a way to add them back.

The other is that the user now has to manipulate and switch how they hold the light. An ice pick grip works for the FBI, jaw/temple, Harries, and reverse Harries, but everything gets changed to use the SF/Rodgers/Syringe/Caracci/Etc method. Even with us teaching it at work and school, I rarely saw it used in either simulators (without prompting) or in the real world. If it isn't being used without prompting in training, why spend time on it in training? I'll demo and discuss it in low-light courses, but I don't spend much time on it.

Erick, thanks for your insight!

If I may add some flashlight nerd points to the above, in my view the Rogers technique does indeed require a flashlight specifically configured for the technique to be effective. Along with the grip ring, the other key feature is the tailcap and switch.

The original SF Combat Lights used the "twisty" tailcap, which mechanically is a very simple design consisting of an aluminum plunger that is under tension from the battery contact spring. Pushing the switch presses the plunger against the spring to the rear edge of the body to make electrical contact. There are two issues with this design;

1. How far the tailcap is twisted down impacts the spring tension, which changes the amount of force required to make a good electrical contact
2. More importantly, the aluminum plunger and the rear of the body where it makes contact oxidizes over time, increasing electrical resistance and the amount of force required for good contact

The net result is that light actuation can be inconsistent, and it only gets worse over time. I have a collection of old "twisties" and they all cause light flicker if I don't really press down hard on the switch. This is IMO the Achilles heel of the technique - establishing and maintaining consistent actuation of the switch with a part of the hand that does not have much dexterity.

SF has moved to a "clicky" style switch on their new Combat Lights. The electrical contacts are plated for corrosion resistance and the amount of pressure required on the switch remains constant, so this is a big improvement. The downside is the liability of inadvertent latching to constant-on if the switch is pressed a little too aggressively. While some may not consider this a big deal, others (including myself) see it as an impediment to precise control of momentary-only operation.

This has been a focus of my efforts for quite some time - finding the ideal tailcap and switch for this technique. My goal is to provide easy and consistent momentary operation while minimizing inadvertent latching of the switch. The "Tactician style" tailcap I use, along with the industry-standard McClicky switch and a low-profile medium press boot does this extremely well. I can squeeze as hard as I can in a Rogers-Surefire hold without the switch latching, yet the switch easily actuates for momentary operation. I guess only a nerd like me would have expended all the bandwidth to figure out how to do this. :-)

Due to this, I can easily see why most would abandon the technique for something that is easier to use. That said, I'm glad I finally came up with a combination of parts that addresses the hardware challenges.

Thanks again for sharing your experience, it's very much appreciated!

[CraigS]

A fellow I shoot idpa with showed me that technique at our last night match. One thing he added was that he uses the shortest flashlight he can find. He says that really helps reduce the tendency of the light to sag downward.

[nalesq]

A fellow I shoot idpa with showed me that technique at our last night match. One thing he added was that he uses the shortest flashlight he can find. He says that really helps reduce the tendency of the light to sag downward.

It also helps for the light to be lightweight and for the portion between the fingers to be as thin as possible. I personally found the little old and sadly long discontinued Quark QTLC to be ideal in this regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[NH Shooter]

It also helps for the light to be lightweight and for the portion between the fingers to be as thin as possible. I personally found the little old and sadly long discontinued Quark QTLC to be ideal in this regard.

My Quark QT2L-X head on a Quark AA body, using a 14500 Li-ion cell for power. I find the AA length perfect, but the 1-CR123 body too short. The Quark would benefit from a true grip ring instead of just an O-ring, but it is certainly very usable for the Rogers-Surefire configured like this.

IMO, the best feature of the Quarks was using the head to select one of two outputs, but this was something the Surefire lawsuit brought to an end.

As much as I like the Quark, the E2HT 18350 Dagger (or BGV2 18350 Bodyguard) is far superior for this use.

[ViniVidivici]

Good to see this discussed.

I've always used 3 techniques: FBI, Harries, and Rogers/Surefire.

My FBI is not held up at full extension, but sort of hybridized with neck index. Used for situations when I'm already searching or illuminating, THEN a potential threat emerges.

Also useful for searching in very close quarters, light up at shoulder height (where arm can be used for blocking/pushing if need be), and pistol held back in retention position, ready to shoot.

Harries for when I want to draw the pistol and light simultaneously.

Rogers/Surefire is great for increased accuracy and stability, bit I feel it's too cumbersome to get into quickly, from the holster. I almost always use it for extended searching or shooting, migrating from Harries if/when there's time. It's just not fast enough to get into, from the holster.