Suggestions for cast/coated bullets for S&W 625 .45 ACP revolver?

[revchuck38]

I've had problems with my M22-4 pulling bullets - it's much lighter than a 625 so it's a better bullet puller. I went with 225-grain RNFPs from Missouri Bullets; I just checked their website and they're no longer listed. I also use the Redding Profile Crimp die and crimp in the crimp groove. I chose those bullets so I'd have something that would have the same POI as my carry load, 230-grain HST +P.

If my geezer memory serves, I never had problems with pulled bullets in my 1917 using uncoated 230-grain RNLs.

[Borderland]

The 625 headspaces on the case mouth just like the autos do. They'll even fire without a moon clip.

Reloading is a world better with full RN bullets. When I went to Nationals all I had were 200 RN with the little shoulder from Bayou Bullets. I worked up a load that seated it deep past that little shoulder and roll crimped over it. One guy on my squad said they looked like simunition rounds! That's the only load that didn't pull bullets in my three guns and at chrono it gave me two shots with identical readings and the other was 3FPS different. The chrono guy asked what powder I was running.

The 625 is a kinetic bullet puller. Even mil spec factory ball with sealant on the bullets pulled out. I just quit worrying about it because I don't think a crimp will ever hold it unless it's into a cannelure.

Reloading SWCs will frustrate the hell out of you compared to a full round nose. It's actually faster to drop them above the cylinder instead of guiding them in, at least for me...

What bullet were you using if you don't mind me asking? I'm crimping over the shoulder on the 38 Short Colt I just loaded. I had hundreds of these bullets without a crimp grove. I think they are these but I wouldn't swear to it.
https://bayoubullets.net/38-357-124-gr-rn/

Are you sure about the head spacing on the case mouth? The moon clip limits the distance the case can go into the cylinder. I think I measured it once an determined the case mouth couldn't reach the shoulder of the cylinder ring with the clips I use. But I could be wrong.

Doesn't matter because it's not terribly important.

[Borderland]

I've had problems with my M22-4 pulling bullets - it's much lighter than a 625 so it's a better bullet puller. I went with 225-grain RNFPs from Missouri Bullets; I just checked their website and they're no longer listed. I also use the Redding Profile Crimp die and crimp in the crimp groove. I chose those bullets so I'd have something that would have the same POI as my carry load, 230-grain HST +P.

If my geezer memory serves, I never had problems with pulled bullets in my 1917 using uncoated 230-grain RNLs.

Yeah, it's a mystery for sure. If it was a problem we would have heard about before now. The 625 is a bullet puller though.

[RevolverJIM]

I just measured the loaded overall length of the cylinder of one of my 625 PC revolvers with:

Hornady Critical Duty loaded in the cylinder with OUT moons...

.45 Auto Rim brass in the cylinder........

Loaded moon clip in the cylinder......

The overall length with Critical Duty head spacing on the case mouth was .010" shorter than the Auto Rim brass or the loaded moons. So that means that the shoulder cuts in the chambers were deeper than optimum, causing excess head space if moons are not used.
The Auto Rim brass and loaded moon clip were with in .001" of each other.

If I could find speed loaders that worked well with AR brass I would try that for a while. The HKS loaders allow too much wiggle room suit me.

[Half Moon]

Are you sure about the head spacing on the case mouth? The moon clip limits the distance the case can go into the cylinder. I think I measured it once an determined the case mouth couldn't reach the shoulder of the cylinder ring with the clips I use. But I could be wrong.

Doesn't matter because it's not terribly important.

The head spacing is variable depending on generation. 1917's are on spec but at least some of the later 625 dashes have the chamber shoulder cut a little deeper leading to unreliability without clips. I can't remember which dash but vaguely recall it being the Model of 1988. Not sure if Smith returned to the earlier headspace cut later or not.

[Borderland]

The head spacing is variable depending on generation. 1917's are on spec but at least some of the later 625 dashes have the chamber shoulder cut a little deeper leading to unreliability without clips. I can't remember which dash but vaguely recall it being the Model of 1988. Not sure if Smith returned to the earlier headspace cut later or not.

I've shot my 625 JM without the clips. It works.

[Spartan1980]

What bullet were you using if you don't mind me asking? I'm crimping over the shoulder on the 38 Short Colt I just loaded. I had hundreds of these bullets without a crimp grove. I think they are these but I wouldn't swear to it.
https://bayoubullets.net/38-357-124-gr-rn/

Are you sure about the head spacing on the case mouth? The moon clip limits the distance the case can go into the cylinder. I think I measured it once an determined the case mouth couldn't reach the shoulder of the cylinder ring with the clips I use. But I could be wrong.

Doesn't matter because it's not terribly important.

This was the bullet.

https://bayoubullets.net/45-acp-200-gr-rn/

And yes. I've had three different 625s and I fired a full cylinder from each gun just for curiosity's sake. They all went bang.

Most moon clips aren't that tight but the good wire EDM'd ones can be and are the best when they are holding the cases ridgid so they don't flop around. In .45ACP the extractor groove has dimensional specs per SAMMI but .38 Special doesn't. Manufacturers just do what they want with .38. I ran Starline brass in .38SC because their .38SC brass is identical to their .38SP brass except for length and headstamp. Moonclips are a lot more critical on the .38 because of this. I forget the specifics, but a couple would work with my Hearthco clips and another was iffy and another was a complete no go. In .45 you don't have all that business going on.

[revchuck38]

IIRC, the literature that came with my 22-4 stated that clips were required and that the chambers weren't designed to headspace the cartridges. I've never tried shooting it without the clips. Since I bought it specifically to shoot with full moon clips, it doesn't bother me.

[358156hp]

The head spacing is variable depending on generation. 1917's are on spec but at least some of the later 625 dashes have the chamber shoulder cut a little deeper leading to unreliability without clips. I can't remember which dash but vaguely recall it being the Model of 1988. Not sure if Smith returned to the earlier headspace cut later or not.

When JD Jones was the hunting editor for American Handgunner he took S&W to task for the quality of the 625, Model of 1988, he published a long list of issues, including cutting the chambers too deep in the cylinders, causing headspace issues unless moon clips were used. The article was titled something like "The Gun S&W Couldn't Fix", or something similar. JD was very popular in those days, and refused to back down, and I think S&W finally fixed the gun to JDs satisfaction after several trips back to the factory.

I'd love to find that issue of AH again. Magazines were different back then.

[willie]

Bullet pull force brought or tension holding the bullet in the case is a factor that the reloader can control. It depends on case thickness, bullet diameter, degree of resizing by size die, diameter of case expander, and crimp. Military cases are thicker than commercial cases. Cast bullets must be at least .452. .453 works well. A too large diameter expander will inhibit achieving case tension.

Much variation exist in die sets. Degree of diameter reduction by size die and degree of expander diameter are variables. Lee makes an outstanding taper crimp die that will complete the last step better than others. Also, Lee makes collet type crimp dies for some handgun calibers. 45 ACP is not one but would be a custom offering.

Maybe I was lucky. After I began to us thicker cases and .452/.453 bullets and a homemade crimp die, I had no trouble with bullets jumping the case in the Model 25 .45ACP. I recommend the Lyman M die. Also, certain machinists will make custom expanders. Lee will make a tighter size die. Check out Lee collet crimp dies.