TAURUS 856 TORO- Red dot optic equipped revolver.

[Tamara]

Wait, so... Some people want to zero their dot to match their trigger jerk?

No. That's not what was said.

You do know what "dwell time" is and why it's important for the relationship between POA and POI?

EDIT: Here's an informative piece. It's about irons, but a lot of the same principles apply.

[Tamara]

Dang a couple of those motorized target positioners (or whatever you call them) could probably function as little drone tanks with how many bullet strikes it looks like they can take.

The carriers themselves are tough as nails. What's bad is a bullet strike on those rails can dimple them and impeded the travel of the carrier.

Alas, I was the the first one to cause that when a used G17 I bought doubled, thanks to the previous owner's shadetree "trigger job".

[JCN]

Single or double action makes no difference, if you are jerking you need more dry fire practice. Only then once you have eliminated the jerk you should zero the dot.

No. That's not what was said.

You do know what "dwell time" is and why it's important for the relationship between POA and POI?

As clarification and to help myself learn, I’m going to try to explain what I think I’m understanding from this:

A revolver is more sensitive to dwell time muzzle lift because the energy rotates around the hand and grip fulcrum without a slide to translate some energy straight backwards. I have definitely noticed this with regard to sensitivity of different ammunition in revolvers over semi automatic.

Assuming good trigger presses without any appreciable flinch or dip:

As the firmness and placement of the rotational fulcrum of the grip (higher versus lower) changes, so does the torque arm leverage of the muzzle lift.

So if someone does not have the same reproducible hold ergonomics for single action and double action (which can sometimes be variable if there are reach and strength issues for strong hand rotation and trigger finger placement for double action)…

You basically have different amounts of resistance and changes in the physics that affect the ability of the muzzle to rotate during the dwell time.

Does that sound reasonable?

It’s one of those things that would disappear if you put the gun in a Ransom Rest or held the gun with perfect consistency. I think there was a better explanation in Hatcher. I’ll check.

I am super thankful that you included this last comment, it really helped clarify and solidify what we were talking about for me. I use the same grip for every type of handgun so I have not noticed any changes in double and single action revolver impact because a lot of my handgun work is DA/SA semi autos so I’m used to having a grip that optimizes the balance between both actions.

[Tamara]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

[Corse]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

I wonder if that’s what’s messing with my ammo testing from a rest? I’m focused so much on the sights and with different power factor loads over a long string of shooting, I know my grip isn’t super consistent.

[Tamara]

I wonder if that’s what’s messing with my ammo testing from a rest? I’m focused so much on the sights and with different power factor loads over a long string of shooting, I know my grip isn’t super consistent.

That makes a big difference with a revolver, also whether the butt is resting on the bench/bag or not.

[Corse]

That makes a big difference with a revolver, also whether the butt is resting on the bench/bag or not.

So should I not be resting the butt on anything? Technically, my hand was resting on the bag with the barrel supported by the rest.

[Tamara]

So should I not be resting the butt on anything? Technically, my hand was resting on the bag with the barrel supported by the rest.

It can affect how fast & how much the muzzle rises, relative to just shooting offhand. I seem to get the best results supporting the barrel but leaving an inch or so of clearance under the butt to keep it from printing noticeably lower than it would for me offhand. Again, though, this is a thing that’s going to vary between shooters based on grip strength and technique.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

Sounds to me like this is the key to the whole discussion. A consistent grip should always be a goal when it comes to habdgun technique.

Besides differences in grip, i dont see how the mechanical dwell time could meaningfully differ between SA and DA.

Not sure how big a difference it makes, but dwell time measured from the time the primer is popped is also going to typically be much longer in a revolver. Consider a target .38 where an 800fps bullet needs to make it through 6-8" of barrel+chamber, compared to a 9mm where a 1200fps bullet has to make it through 4" total.

[Tamara]

Sounds to me like this is the key to the whole discussion. A consistent grip should always be a goal when it comes to habdgun technique.

Besides differences in grip, i dont see how the mechanical dwell time could meaningfully differ between SA and DA.

It’s not the mechanical dwell time that differs, but what the gun does during that time. Thank you for clarifying your understanding of the topic at hand.