Has a provisional division ever not been passed? I have no faith that member feedback is going to sway or change anything, no matter how negative.Originally Posted by YVK
Has a provisional division ever not been passed? I have no faith that member feedback is going to sway or change anything, no matter how negative.
Huh? That is what Limited Optic IS. Assuming they go ahead and implement it, which seems likely.
Seems like somebody at USPSA was paying attention to new gun introductions.
SA Prodigy, EAA Witness, Oracle, and DWX (will require machining or a wait for a factory optic model.)
Entry level guns for a new game, plus a draw for owners of Staccato and similar who are tired of solo drills and beer cans.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I'm good with either 15 or 140mm. Probably easier on ROs to just have 140mm, so they are not stuck having to count rounds.
There are still some of us shooting Limited Minor because 10 round stage planning sucks. If I'm going to reload that often I might as well just dust off my 1911, and go all boomer in Single Stack!
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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8
Reloading seems to be a skill no longer sought. Kind of like jumping a wall or crawling through a tunnel.
I am too old and creaky to do the athletic stuff but I can still stick a fresh magazine in the gun every once in a while.
Component supplies dictate my division more than anything these days. I will be shooting Limited minor 9 from a STI tonight, but it might be Limited 10 or SS next week because I have a stock of .45 components and ammo to work from, too.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I'll offer the opposite opinion.
1) Crafting rules to make ROs do less doesn't make the sport better. When there's a major change, that should be deliberated and researched carefully, with member feedback, paying special attention to how it will affect competition. Deleting the weight limit is a good example. What capacity is the best for Production as a USPSA division?
2) 10 round stage planning is challenging. I like that. 15 rounds might be better though, for parity with IPSC. 23+1 in PRODUCTION? That would take what's already barely recognizable as Production further in a direction that requires expensive, finicky, custom guns. No thank you.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
If members' feedback is predominately negative, it is going to get leaked one way or another. The lim op was not supported by the board two years in a row, according to a recent article. I'm not sure that it has that huge of a support within the board, and I don't know if they want another controversy. I may be naive but I still don't think it is a done deal.
Last edited by YVK; 12-28-2022 at 12:31 PM.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
My wife says that new 226 X5 could be the division killer in Limited Optics.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
It’s almost like all these gun companies building competition guns without a competition home, knew something.
David S.
Nope.
The PERCEPTION will be that you have to have a 2011 to succeed.
Never mind those hyper tuned Sigs, Caniks, etc. A friend has a pair of PRP XD Elite 5.25s, one with iron sights, one with optic, that deliver hits as well as anything on the market. But they aren't Kewl.
Naturally all the Internet Experts on Benos are saying how it ought to be different.
Code Name: JET STREAM
With regard to proposal to increase capacity in Production Division, there are pros and cons to everything:
15 rnds proposal:
Pros: 15 rnds is more funner than 10 and will make for more interesting stage planning. Levels the playing field since most guns on the Prod list can hold 15 rnds in a factory mag. Differentiates Prod from the other divisions since it would be the only division with 15 rnds. Most newbs have at least 3 mags, so they don’t need to be stuffed into Limited-minor (and further inflating Limited activity numbers).
Con: Instead of counting to 10, ROs will now need to count to 15 or 15+1. Not all ROs are very diligent about counting to 10 as it is. 15 is going to be even worse.
**Note: I haven’t shot IDPA since they went to 15 rnds in SSP, is it a good thing or bad thing?
Factory mag length proposal:
Pros: Load ‘em up to capacity! No need for ROs to count rounds. Newb shooters with only 3 mag can now shoot Prod instead of Limited-minor division.
Cons: Mag capacity envy from those people who’s gun only holds 15 rnds, and smug looks from the guy shooting guns that hold 19… Prod essentially becomes a 19 rnd division. Allowing mag length is going to create an equipment race with mag springs to maximize capacity, and I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody figures out a spring/follower combo that increases capacity of the factory 19 rnd mags to 20 or 21 rnds.
Factory length mag w/ short mag extension:
Pros: Levels the playing field so the 15 rnd guys can add a basepad (that fits the box) to catch up to the factory 19 rnd mags. A boon for companies making extended basepads that fit the box and increase a factory mag capacity to +1, +2, +3, etc..
Cons: Yet another equipment race, only this time it is in basepads, springs, and followers. As with mag length, Prod essentially becomes a 19 rnd division (if 15 is better than 10, 19 must be way more better… right?). Same comment about innovators gonna innovate to increasing mag capacity to 20-21 rnds, and now we’re getting close to Limited and CO territory, further blurring the distinction between Prod and the hi-cap divisions.
All that being said, I’d probably shoot Prod more if capacity was increased to any of the three proposals above.
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