Provisional Limited Optics

[cheby]

To be in the Olympic Games, sports must have several factors. The biggest ones, in order, are:

Universality- participation in every continental region which for Olympic purposes is the Americas, Asia, Europe, Africa and Oceania. Not sure how many Aussies and Kiwis participate these days.

Gender equality. Check, in that AFAIK a woman can compete with and against men for the same prize money, etc in IPSC.

Gender Equity. That’s a tough one, in a sport that has what- a 25-1 male/female participation ratio?

Televisibility. Needs to be interesting for television. Very doable in my opinion but…

The real elephant in the room is that some influential IOC members - including the President, Thomas Bach, don’t really care for guns in the first place (conveniently ignoring the ones being carried by their security details at the Games) which is why firearms based competition with actual “lead styphnate goes bang” devices is more and more limited in the Games. And mind you Bach was an Olympic FENCER. A sport where you are scoring points STABBING PEOPLE.

And this is not a new phenomenon. Read this for starters… 22 years ago now. https://apnews.com/article/30594033c...248b56f6778822

So, yeah. “Guns icky”. Slack jawed as that may be, it’s what we would have to overcome.

Okay, fuck the Olympics, I don't want to be a part of it.

[Jim Watson]

At the indoor USPSA tonight I was one of three iron sight shooters out of 15 entries.
One PCC, one real Open gun.
Three "opens" that were really COs with minor disqualifiers. Probably IDPA CO.
Seven regulation USPSA CO.

So 2/3 dots on slides.


I recall reading that IPSC was negotiating for an Olympic "demonstration sport" presence in the 1990s.
They were even going to change the scoring to "time plus" a la IDPA so spectators could keep track of what was going on.

[Archer1440]

I recall reading that IPSC was negotiating for an Olympic "demonstration sport" presence in the 1990s.
They were even going to change the scoring to "time plus" a la IDPA so spectators could keep track of what was going on.

In 2019, IPSC managed to move a bit forward, by being granted GAISF Observer Status (Google it, tldr is they were let in the servant door of a IOC recognized governing body for wannabe Olympic sports, putting them literally on the level of Dodgeball and Footgolf. And no I am not making this up.)

At the time it was promoted as a “gun safety promotional initiative” (copy-pasta to google the phrase “IPSC ON A MISSION TO PROMOTE SAFE USE OF FIREARMS THROUGH SPORT“ to get to this dead link here or you’ll get a 404- https://gaisf.sport/ipsc-on-a-missio...hrough-sport/])

Freaking AIRSOFT was a part of this initiative.

Here we are at the end of 2022, and guess which 55-year old IOC recognized organization for wannabe Olympic sports was permanently dissolved earlier this month? GAISF.

I won’t even get into how ISSF has actively worked to block IPSC efforts in this general direction over the past three decades. Bucket of crabs.

[YVK]

I started a poll on the Enos forum, asking how people voted in the USPSA survey. Part of the reason was to quantify the breakdown of public opinions, and part to see if this will match with whatever the USPSA will say about their survey. So far I am surprised about the results of first 20 or so voters.

Meanwhile, dry firing my Shadows from cocked and locked yesterday, I again reminded myself that their thumb safeties' ergos suck comparing to 1911.

[Gio]

But Nils would also beat his CO Canik Self with a Souped up 2011.

I disagree about this part, but I think that's a common misperception with regards to SAO/2011 style guns that is a holdover from the 90's and early 2000's when the alternatives were heavy DA/SA triggers and striker fired guns without as much customization available to make them on par.

At some point the firearm matters, but a fully tricked out Glock/Canik/Sig320/other high end striker fired polymer gun has no disadvantage to a 2011 and will not create a statistically different score for the same high level shooter.

[ECK]

Meanwhile, dry firing my Shadows from cocked and locked yesterday, I again reminded myself that their thumb safeties' ergos suck comparing to 1911.

I was thinking about that last night. If LO is adopted, I’ll probably just shoot my Shadow 2 and start with the hammer down for the same reason.

[JCN]

I started a poll on the Enos forum, asking how people voted in the USPSA survey. Part of the reason was to quantify the breakdown of public opinions, and part to see if this will match with whatever the USPSA will say about their survey. So far I am surprised about the results of first 20 or so voters.

Meanwhile, dry firing my Shadows from cocked and locked yesterday, I again reminded myself that their thumb safeties' ergos suck comparing to 1911.

I think also, Enos like PF probably doesn’t represent the opinions of the general population…

[cheby]

I was thinking about that last night. If LO is adopted, I’ll probably just shoot my Shadow 2 and start with the hammer down for the same reason.

There’s no much difference between shadow 2 and 2011. The first shot and location of the safety. That’s all. The SA trigger is even better for some on shadow 2.
Acceptance of pistols like shadow 2 and stock2 is what that killed Production in the first place.

[Artemas2]

Voted. For me it boiled down to

Add slide mounted optic SAO to CO. the "gear" gap of modern production guns to SAOs is pretty close and we don't need more divisions.

No, I am not spending 2k or more to shoot a "new" division

Production 15: I prefer 10 rounds, but current stage design trends are not locap friendly and it is in line with the other sports, and still maintains some complexity of stage planning.

L-10 with optics: While I should vote no on principal, I think people will be surprised at how close the result are when capacity advantage is no longer a factor.
and this will make a 10 round catch-all division for those who want/need it.

I am not happy with all the poll options, but I am not against the game changing to reflect new things.

[ECK]

There’s no much difference between shadow 2 and 2011. The first shot and location of the safety. That’s all. The SA trigger is even better for some on shadow 2.
Acceptance of pistols like shadow 2 and stock2 is what that killed Production in the first place.

Oh, so you’re saying Shadow 2 shooters like me had a hand in killing off Production? How about the SP-01? I shot that gun for a couple years when Prod was one of the most popular divisions.

And while the trigger pull weight between my Shadows and my 2011’s are setup the same (~2 lbs), the break is completely different. Shadow has more of a rolling break while the 2011s are a more crisp wall. There’s also a weight difference with the Shadow 2 being a few ounces heavier.