IDPA BUG might be right down your alley.Originally Posted by YVK
IDPA BUG might be right down your alley.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
What .32 cal gun is good?
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
The best explanation I heard regarding the evolution of Production in the last 10 years was it was not intended to be frozen circa 2000 with only guns from that era. Things evolve. Manufacturers are going to innovate, and it is inevitable that new designs or custom fabs that become proven and popular in other divisions will eventually find their way into mass-produced factory guns if a OFM can figure out a way to bring them to market and get a ROI. So the equipment rules need to remain current to provide a level playing field as things change. I would submit that for every person who longs for the old Prod rules, there are an equal or greater number of people who welcome the changes.
Just think if SS was frozen with the M1911A1 GI model from WWII or the Korean War era, with no external features we’ve come to take for granted in a modern 1911 such as extended mag releases, extended thumb safeties, beavertails grip safeties, modern metallurgy, modern spring technology, hell even 8 rnd mags that are reliable instead of 7 rnd mags identifying as an 8 rnd mag….
FWIW, I am as competitive as the next guy, and swimming in the ever deepening pool of M-class sharks I too want to win and do well. So heck yeah I’m gonna test different guns and gear and figure out what works best for me.
I feel like BUG type class would be cool if it was based around guns people actually use and realistic capacity.
BUG and BUG optics based on p365ish sized guns and capacity. At least then there would be a division for peoples actual carry guns without reloading once per target.
ECK, I think we're talking on a different wavelengths. I am all for the technologic, ergonomic and what other enhancements might make their way into our guns. The point that I and cheby were making, admittedly moot at this time, is whether the Production was meant to be the division dominated by purpose-built guns to give their users a max advantage within existing rules, but otherwise useless for almost all other practical purposes. To that point you mentioning 1911s makes an interesting observation: 1911 afficionados, and we still have some even on this forum, have a division where they are fully competitive with guns effectively identical, save for trigger pull weight, to what they carry. PX4CC/HK P2000/G19/P320 Compact guns don't have such division even though many of them have more technological advancements and innovations than a beefed up version of a 1975 Czech gun. I am told such division wouldn't be viable but I am not sure how people know that since such division didn't seem to ever existed.
Anyway, that ship has sailed in a direction that is about to give us another division that will be dominated by purpose-built race guns. I am actually curious what Staccato guys are going to do about their polymer grips since STI voids the warranty if factory grip has been removed.
Last edited by YVK; 12-30-2022 at 02:06 AM.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
YVK, you make some valid points, but the one thing that appears to be be keeping us from doing what you suggest is our own self-imposed desire to finish well in the match (aka our competitive nature). To that end, I have a proposal: For the next match, what say we give the finger to match finish and shoot a ‘practical’ gun at USPSA matches. For me, I would shoot my EDC (a Sig 365XL) or a P10C (closest thing I own to a Glock anymore). And thanks to the 2021 RB, we can even run them AIWB (which is how I normally carry).
Something my club does on a 5th Saturday is host an outlaw match where we encourage people to show up with their CCW gun & gear to a) get some practice with our EDC in a match setting, b) see if it really works, and c) just have fun without worrying about scores or classification. We even made up divisions: John Wick (anything goes if that is what you really carry), Goldilocks for the 4”-ish G19 size compacts, and ISHBABG (I Should Have Brought A Bigger Gun) for the true subcompacts (aka G43, M&P Shield, Colt Mustang, 365…).
I shoot a plastic PX4 in Limited Minor from appendix and everyone else shooting 2011s and CZs and 320 Legions hasn't ruined my fun. But I'm not competing for wins. Last match I was exciting to be like 5th in limited.
If production is bumped to 15 I'd go to production. 10 rounds is a lot of reloads when every stage is 24-32 rounds and you're new to the sport.
Last spring, I shot a number of matches with a Glock 19 and a Mayhem comp in Open, and it was great fun.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Well, first they'll sprout some malarkey about 'polymer flex' being actually better, even though we all know it's not. Then they'll send their guns out for an expensive new grip fitting, warranty be damned.
Then they'll finally spring for an Atlas/LimCat/SVI.
So much to consider with these rule changes. As someone who started in the sport when there were no divisions, I can understand the reasoning to want to have options to competitively shoot guns that aren't full blown 2011 open guns. However, as someone who just recently started racing autocross, I see the absurdity to try to rap a "division" / class (what we call a division, they call a class) around every type of car / gun that someone might show up with.
Just because one super human can succeed with less competitive equipment, does not make that the norm. I've dual entered matches in the past with my G35 and STI 2011. In my experience of shooting, match director, and RO'ing, the equipment advantage really seems to play its most part at the B-M classifications.
I've been shooting a 2011 9mm with a dot for almost 10 years now, and other 9mms (9x21 and .38 super) for much longer. It's called Open division.
Even if they allow Major / Minor in this new proposed division, there is no reason you still can't shoot minor and even gain a 2 round bump in mag capacity, not to mention the lower felt recoil.
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