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Thread: GunSite 260 Shotgun course opinions please

  1. #11
    Rob Haught of Symtac Consulting and his son do classes in the Phoenix or Vegas area about once a year.

    FWIW, when I attended Rob's class there were plenty of students running Beretta 1301s.

    Scott Reitz of ITTS does an excellent series of 1-2 day shotgun courses just outside the LA area.

    I hope this helps!

  2. #12
    I was lucky enough to take shotgun classes during what I think of as the golden days of shotgun instruction, the early 2000's. Classes at Thunder Ranch, Gunsite and with Louis Awerbuck, Bill Jeans, Randy Cain, and Clint Smith. Then, it was pistol, shotgun, rifle (meaning practical bolt guns), and carbine (.223). Col. Cooper wasn't much of a fan of defensive shotguns, but I believe he appreciated good shotgun training, as the shotgun was so integral to police work. Gunsite spun off most of the instructor cadre that went on to teach.

    By 2010, the shotgun was mostly supplanted by the AR-15, and many of the shotgun instructors retired, passed, or focused more on other weapon systems. I think the TX-4/1301 may have done more with a honorable mention to Flitecontrol) than any other single thing to bring shotguns back to the mainstream.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter 1911Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    I'm thinking were classmates.

    There might be a bit of a bias, I'll be working a couple of those shotgun classes this coming year.
    Erick: We may very well have been classmates. April 22, 1995 was graduation day. Bill Jeans, who was operations manager at that time, was also the class instructor. I simply cannot think of a more enjoyable week in my life, including the night shooting in the snow flurry!

    Ken

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    For the sake of comparative shopping, are there any 2-day Shotgun courses, possibly more cost-effective, that y'all can recommend, especially out on in the West, or from a traveling instructor?
    Whether mentioned or not, I can recommend:
    Scott Reitz/ITTS (fixed location);
    Rob & Matt Haught/Symtac (good hosts);
    Fisher/Sentinel Concepts;

    Both Darryl Bolke/HITS and I do cost-effective classes but each of us are looking for hosts.

    Unfortunately, far too many people now didn't get to train with Louis, Bill Jeans. Randy and Tom Givens aren't coming out west.

    And, there will be another ThunderStick Summit (shotgun round-up) this fall. Waiting on confirmation of the dates but it will be in LV.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Nut View Post
    Erick: We may very well have been classmates. April 22, 1995 was graduation day. Bill Jeans, who was operations manager at that time, was also the class instructor. I simply cannot think of a more enjoyable week in my life, including the night shooting in the snow flurry!

    Ken
    We were classmates sir.

  6. #16
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    You guys are awesome, thanks again for the no nonsense, solid info, as always. I’ll send the link of this thread to my buddy.

    Actually, in fact, I wouldn’t mind getting me a 1301 and now I’ve got the lowdown on where to look for training too.
    Last time anyone taught me shotgun was in 1987 as a senior in HS, at the Rio Hondo Police Academy in So. CA, through a HS Law Enforcement class outreach program, and that was with pump guns (and with S&W model 19’s for the handgun portion ! - good times…and very different times at that!).

  7. #17
    Matt Haught, Rob’s son, is based in Phoenix. He will do one day clinics locally every now and then. He last few have been in Prescott. He is on this forum as @LHS

    He will regularly bring his Dad in and they will do a class locally. In fact, they are overdue for one.

    As Erick pointed out, the next Thunderstick Summit should be next fall in Vegas.

    It may be worthwhile for your friend to get in contact with Matt, either to see about a one day clinic, or even some private lessons. He is an excellent shotgun instructor. And that would get your friend prepped very well to do the summit. In he space of a year, he could be operating at a very functional and effective level with the boomer.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

  8. #18
    Member LHS's Avatar
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    I have not personally taken any of Gunsite's shotgun courses. I was young and dumb when Bill Jeans and Louis Awerbuck were still teaching, busy with school and then a family, and did not make the time to go learn from them, and that's something I regret. A good chunk of what we have now in the shotgun world is thanks to them, either directly or built upon the foundation of their work. That hindsight is why I've been making it a point to go experience the shotgun instructors we have today while they're still teaching. Something Dad told me decades ago when I was just a little kid has stuck with me: "Nobody can teach you everything, but everybody can teach you something."

    What I have seen of the Gunsite shotgun doctrine (from reading Louis' book, watching old Gunsite videos, instruction from people who have been/taught there, etc) seems like a workable system, and a workable system is absolutely better than no system. I personally think that our recoil mitigation techniques make any shotgun course a lot more pleasant, especially if the shooter is not a large mammal, and would recommend getting some push-pull instruction before doing a 2- or 3-day shotgun class from anyone. Your shoulder will hurt less, and you'll be better situated to learn the material rather than focusing on how much your shoulder's aching.

    As Erick and others have mentioned, next fall's Thunderstick Summit will be an excellent smorgasbord of different instructors to sample, a great way to figure out who to seek for further instruction.


    Matt Haught
    SYMTAC Consulting LLC
    https://sym-tac.com

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I was lucky enough to have as 260 instructors Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain and Steve Slawson. Hans Vang, Irv Stone, Wayne Novak and Gary Paul Johnson were fellow students in the class.

    As pointed out, Gunsite models the class in part on its rifle offerings, hence the slugs. However, I think the geography of the west, with its wide open spaces favors the reach out of a slug. For my use, outside defensive shotguns are loaded with all slugs, with the option of selecting a shot load, rather than vice versa. Louis Awerbuck, as an example, carried his personal 14 inch 1100 shotgun loaded with all slugs.

    Taking that class today, I would want a red dot. When I took the class a decade ago, it was with a pair of 11-87 shotguns, one with iron sights and the other with an Aimpoint.

    That was a great class. I also had a Vang 11-87. After the gas ports were drilled out to .125", it ran perfectly. Good times!

  10. #20
    Site Supporter 1911Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    We were classmates sir.
    I will see if I can track down my class photo. Very honored to have been in the class with you, Erick!

    Ken

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