DA/SA FOR AIWB CARRY

[Alembic]

Remembering to decock is a choke point in the TDA manual of arms.

Quoted for those who fail to acknowledge the truth.

Still think you can train to decock in every situation, every time? Please read DB's thread, "Why I like the LEM as a "Street Trigger"

[Noah]

Quoted for those who fail to acknowledge the truth.

Still think you can train to decock in every situation, every time? Please read DB's thread, "Why I like the LEM as a "Street Trigger"

The flipside of this, is how is a cocked DA/SA worse than a modern cocked striker gun or a striker gun with very common modifications like Apex triggers or a Ghost connector etc?

[APS-PF]

Quoted for those who fail to acknowledge the truth.

Still think you can train to decock in every situation, every time? Please read DB's thread, "Why I like the LEM as a "Street Trigger"

Playing devil's advocate here because I'm trying to wrap my mind around some of these concerns... what happens if you don't decock? It gives me the willies too seeing the cocked hammer, but how is the cocked PX4 different from a VP9/320/PPQ? In DBs thread he mentioned seeing more than one instance where people shot themselves after failing to decock **when they holstered with their fingers on the trigger**. Under stress would the result have been different with a striker gun?

[JAD]

The flipside of this, is how is a cocked DA/SA worse than a modern cocked striker gun or a striker gun with very common modifications like Apex triggers or a Ghost connector etc?

Taint, but I wouldn’t carry one of those either. For me, I want a means of control of ignition and a secondary process in the way of the first trigger press (or check). There are lots, nearly all, people who are better than me — but that’s what I need for my purposes.

[GJM]

The flipside of this, is how is a cocked DA/SA worse than a modern cocked striker gun or a striker gun with very common modifications like Apex triggers or a Ghost connector etc?

Playing devil's advocate here because I'm trying to wrap my mind around some of these concerns... what happens if you don't decock? It gives me the willies too seeing the cocked hammer, but how is the cocked PX4 different from a VP9/320/PPQ? In DBs thread he mentioned seeing more than one instance where people shot themselves after failing to decock **when they holstered with their fingers on the trigger**. Under stress would the result have been different with a striker gun?

The cocked 3 pound SA trigger isn't a problem until the next draw when that same shooter tries to put five pounds of prep on his long 7.5 pound DA trigger which now makes a loud noise.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Quoted for those who fail to acknowledge the truth.

Still think you can train to decock in every situation, every time? Please read DB's thread, "Why I like the LEM as a "Street Trigger"

Although everything becomes better if you stick with one platform and train, train, train... when I spent time with LEM triggers I found different problems. The reset is very soft and almost unnoticeable and the wall that you look for when the trigger comes back isn't really as pronounced and stutterfire or accidental refire are very difficult to avoid without letting the trigger go fully forward and taking away the advantage of the short reset.

Like I mentioned, If you train with that exclusively then it has advantages. But I have also found the disadvantages and how it is a separate language that one must learn, making it difficult to go back and forth to DA/SA.
I got my HK P30sk from a fellow who went all LEM in all of his HKs and could not any longer manage the DA/SA, so he sold it.

This is not a value judgment of one action over another. Simply that my experience has been that you would have to train very hard with a different system which would have its own problems IMO.

[APS-PF]

The cocked 3 pound SA trigger isn't a problem until the next draw when that same shooter tries to put five pounds of prep on his long 7.5 pound DA trigger which now makes a loud noise.

Yes I can definitely see that as being a concern George. For a civilian is needing to draw again and shoot soon after firing actually a thing and is it worth giving up the heavier, longer DA trigger and the benefits to mitigate that? I can see this being a problem on the range, but your mistake means a hole lower in your target/berm or just in front of it.

[Bucky]

Although everything becomes better if you stick with one platform and train, train, train... when I spent time with LEM triggers I found different problems. The reset is very soft and almost unnoticeable and the wall that you look for when the trigger comes back isn't really as pronounced and stutterfire or accidental refire are very difficult to avoid without letting the trigger go fully forward and taking away the advantage of the short reset.

Like I mentioned, If you train with that exclusively then it has advantages. But I have also found the disadvantages and how it is a separate language that one must learn, making it difficult to go back and forth to DA/SA.
I got my HK P30sk from a fellow who went all LEM in all of his HKs and could not any longer manage the DA/SA, so he sold it.

This is not a value judgment of one action over another. Simply that my experience has been that you would have to train very hard with a different system which would have its own problems IMO.

Years back, I had trouble switching back-and-forth between LEM and other actions. When I trained to fully release the trigger, regardless of the OS, that issue went away.

[BehindBlueI's]

Quoted for those who fail to acknowledge the truth.

Still think you can train to decock in every situation, every time? Please read DB's thread, "Why I like the LEM as a "Street Trigger"

Near enough, yes. I trained to the point I "decocked" my Glock when I had to shoot it at in-service by instinct, despite obvious lack of decocking lever. However I am not perfect and except I may screw it up. In order for bad things to happen, I must also screw up more things. I must screw up not thumbing the hammer, which gives me feedback that it's not decocked. I must then screw up by putting some object in the trigger guard, from finger to draw string, and apply enough force to the trigger to drop the hammer. I must do this while having the gun pointed at something I don't want a bullet to go in to. Simply forgetting to decock alone is not a problem, it's the entire chain that's a bother.

I'm all Glock again these days since I transitioned back when I went back into uniform and just stuck with it when I went back to Invest, but I won't carry a striker fired appendix without an SCD. I know many do and that's up to them, but *I* want that redundancy of having tactile feedback upon holstering that the hammer/striker isn't moving.

I honestly don't care how many UDs of various types happen at the range because the vast majority of UDs that hurt anyone don't happen on ranges. They happen during admin handling or during high stress events.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The cocked 3 pound SA trigger isn't a problem until the next draw when that same shooter tries to put five pounds of prep on his long 7.5 pound DA trigger which now makes a loud noise.

With training and practice, not only is reholstering decocked a habit, feeling and being behind the hammer as you holster, but the feel of where your trigger is before you yank it back is something that an experienced shooter would not have a problem with.